I am asserting that, for “The First without beginning” it shows the consequence of having qualities that cover all things that derived from “The First without beginning” itself. Therefore I am not saying that because anything created with the same particles then it means they share all the same properties. I am saying that if we see something able to communicate, then this ability must be inherent to “The First without beginning”.
The potential for intelligences to exist must be inherent in the set of rules, that’s obvious, but this is simply a consequence of how entities obeying the rules interact. It’s not as if “Intelligence: allowed” is inscribed on some cosmic natural order. Nobody even has a concrete idea of what it would mean if that were true.
If you want a word for an entity that encompasses all things derived from itself, what’s wrong with “universe?”
Please note that there is an axiom to show that something has a connection directly or indirectly with the awareness. And it can be tested by being able to travel from point A towards a certain direction and return to starting point A. This proves that something should be considered able to adapt and communicate directly or indirectly with us.
And the more difficult things to establish movement patterns near circular trajectory, parabolic, it indicates the less chance of something considered to have a conscious and able to adapt and communicate better.
If there is something is big enough (planet) and considered difficult compared to our lifes to forms the trajectory approaching the form of spheres or parabolic, but it did, then it assert that there is a consciousness that has the quality to adapt a more diverse and better communication.
If something more intelligent, then something will be increasingly able to demonstrate the ability to create movement closer to parabolic trajectory or circle. This is the axiom.
The momentum of something that moves without any obstacles at all will likely move to a perpendicular direction.
Something (gravity etc) that forcing something else to form as an angular movement (closer to parabolic or circle), then it requires the resistance that is not random.
Moreover, for the motion that closer to parabolic or circular and it was happened over and over again, then this further indicates the existence of resistance to the linear momentum that is not random and directed, and this confirms there is something behind it, and it’s the existence of intelligence and strength enough to adjust and controlling.
We can validate it with empirical evidence, and easy to know in everyday life.
A dog that is chasing its tail.
Computer simulation featuring a circular image, it simply shows the intelligence behind the computer, and it has been proven which is human.
and other similar with these, etc, …
The more neat for something doing movements (left traces in the form of) that is closer to the parabolic shape or a circle with a greater difficulty (compared to our lifes) and it was happened again and again, the more shows there is the existence of an intelligent with the power which is also higher (large).
The momentum of something that moves without any obstacles at all will likely move to a perpendicular direction.
Can you explain this further? On face value, this appears to be either meaningless or false.
Something (gravity etc) that forcing something else to form as an angular movement (closer to parabolic or circle), then it requires the resistance that is not random.
Celestial bodies tend to move with negligible resistance, and there’s no reason to hypothesize an intelligence guiding them when exceedingly simple rules of motion explain their behavior quite precisely.
If you can follow it, it may be helpful for you to read this. You appear to be reasoning by analogy when the mechanisms behind the things you’re referring to do not support the comparison.
On outer space, if something is thrown, then the object will travel a straight path. Please try to use your feeling (your sense of self-evidence), whether the object will turn from its original direction (if there is no obstacle)? Of course not. If the object is in conflict or are attracted by gravity from another object, maybe it’ll shift. And if the attractiveness of the object is stopped, then this object will be shifted from its original direction but not in a circle.
Imagine a missile exploring a space and bound by a strong rope in its nose. When the missile is traveling in a straight direction, then pull the rope on the missile until the missile is enough to make the shift, then cut the rope, so the missile can travel free to move forward in accordance with the residual energy.
Are you aware of this? Missiles will be shifted but did not form a circular path. If necessary, the rope can be drawn continuously (with supervision—consciousness) to shift the missile and withdrawn continuously to form a round, but this reflects a conscious effort (intelligent).
Or after shifting, the rope is released and a new missile has a trajectory different from the original trajectory (but not a circle). Or taken over by the program to return to its original position, and this shows there is intervention of intelligence.
Here asserted that the missile which shifted from its original direction of movement will tend to have a new path which will never form a parabolic or circular.
Do you believe in someone who said he had seen a missile shot and after a hit by something and still be able to continue the trip, the missile is moving in different directions with the direction of movement that is almost close to parabolic or circular path (and this is done without using a program or without the remote control by humans that is considered to have intelligence)?
Suppose you look at the super computer that is turned on for weeks and just make a simulation of image as a circle. Is this enough to show us there will always be a simulation of image as a circle that repeated for many times, so it is considered there is no intelligence (programming) guiding the supercomputer?
Let us now thinking by scaling with our own reality. We see through a smaller scale in our lives. Is there something not worth mentioning as intelligent but it can form a movement from A back to A or more perfect again by forming a pattern of near parabolic shape or a circle?
Maybe we have been so affected by the circumstances of the movement pattern of celestial objects are repeated continuously so as to give the impression as it is without any effort (negligible resistance), automatically or similar to these, etc. Strong enough to ignore the existence of resistance. But this is actually a relative.
Negligible resistance? Because of what?
It’s not about analogy, but it’s about thinking by scaling.
On outer space, if something is thrown, then the object will travel a straight path. Please try to use your feeling (your sense of self-evidence), whether the object will turn from its original direction (if there is no obstacle)? Of course not. If the object is in conflict or are attracted by gravity from another object, maybe it’ll shift. And if the attractiveness of the object is stopped, then this object will be shifted from its original direction but not in a circle.
It’s been known since the day of Galileo that an object can attain a circular trajectory by traveling at an appropriate speed perpendicular to gravity. It does not take intelligence to make objects travel in circles, just an extremely simple set of rules.
In relativistic physics, celestial bodies are in fact traveling in the straightest possible trajectories through curved space.
You’re invoking complex explanations to account for simple phenomena.
As you said: ” It does not take intelligence to make objects travel in circles, just an extremely simple set of rules.”
But when people find the set of rules, it shows the human intelligence and also show that such a rule was made by something intelligent. This is the same as someone who breaks a secret code in written form, and after can be known and shown to have conformity with reality, then this indicates that the secret code created by humans or beings with intelligence similar to or more than human.
As you said: “celestial bodies are in fact traveling in the straightest possible trajectories through curved space”
It’s not a problem. The possibility that a planet circulating around the sun because of being pulled (classical theory) or it happened because they were held by a curved space, it still shows a force or property that has a characteristic capable delivering simulation near parabolic or circular motion.
One more thing, I’m also not simplify anything, but I just try to see things from another perspective and see what’s there. On further application should stick to relevancy. When talking about nature and how to interact, then we can not let go of physical explanation, but at least when we talk about an awareness that higher than our own, then physics has room for it.
But when people find the set of rules, it shows the human intelligence and also show that such a rule was made by something intelligent. This is the same as someone who breaks a secret code in written form, and after can be known and shown to have conformity with reality, then this indicates that the secret code created by humans or beings with intelligence similar to or more than human.
Using intelligence to discover something does not mean that the thing that was discovered was done with intelligence. I’m having a hard time forming a coherent argument against it, because it’s basically a non sequitur, like 1+1=2, therefore I am the discoverer of America.
I don’t think there’s much point in my continuing this. If you can read and demonstrate that you understand all the sequences, then we might be able to get somewhere, but at this point, you’re making some very basic and fundamental errors; and they are errors, not simply disagreement, and I don’t think we’re communicating effectively enough to dispel them.
As you said: “Using intelligence to discover something does not mean that the thing that was discovered was done with intelligence. I’m having a hard time forming a coherent argument against it, because it’s basically a non sequitur, like 1+1=2, therefore I am the discoverer of America.”
I am not saying something irrelevant, It’s not like that. What I mean:
When doing activities that involve patterns of circles, thinking in a circular patterns, researching things, and there are many circular patterns involved and occur repeatedly. This shows that we are facing a lot of evidence of intelligence related to what we’re dealing with.
I confirm that all that we face (if not for all) have a lot of crossing patterns and return to its original position, the circle, and this is enough for us to show the existence of intelligence behind it all.
Tracking something in relation to this case which involves a parabolic pattern and circle, or in other words think of something, make an argument involving parabolic and circular pattern, it also indicates the existence of intelligence.
Protecting—self defense in such way that leave a trail near parabolic or circular pattern, it indicates there is something intelligent involved.
Circles are not evidence of intelligence. Take an object moving in a straight line and apply centripetal acceleration to it, and you have circular motion. It’s one of the easiest things in the universe to do.
Unless you go out of your way to demonstrate that you’ve read the rest of the sequences and understood them, this is the last I am going to respond.
Universe does not cover everything, universe just as a place for everything. All qualities are not derived from the universe, because if this is true, then at least there are signs that the universe has a quality of one of thing that derived from the universe itself, which is able to communicate. It’s just a place. We are not within universe, but universe within us.
A set must have the potential of members of a set. Universe encompasses all only as far as accommodating, but it does not have the potential to communicate like humans
If a man makes a work of whatever it is, certainly at one time, there will be a work that reflects the characteristics of humanity, and demonstrated ability to interact with humans, but we understand the axioms that the universe would never have characteristics that can be attributed to humans, but only to be places . Among the universe with human and the other is the complementary for each other.
A set must have the potential of members of a set. Universe encompasses all only as far as accommodating, but it does not have the potential to communicate like humans
It doesn’t actually follow from your argument that this is problematic at all though.
I don’t want to be rude, but I think your English fluency is really impeding your ability to argue your point. A lot of what you’re saying doesn’t make sense, and it’s difficult to tell how much of it is due to lack of familiarity with the language. For your benefit, I should point out that this is not a community where this statement
This dialog is a convertion for a better understanding. Sometimes thinking logically looks like “doesn’t make sense” because of using symbols or forms of language that unusual to everyday life.
holds true. Members of this community in general are quite well equipped to follow symbolic logic, and if a lot of people here are telling you that you’re saying something that doesn’t make sense, it’s worth taking seriously the idea that rather than having an audience that doesn’t understand, you may actually not be making sense.
When you can not understand something, at least you can explain the essence of something that you can not understand, even if it’s wrong, to show that you can not understand, and to demonstrate that the essence of an explanation can not completely understood, and it can not be understood not by appearance, but because its essence can not be understood
Anyway, If it does not help, sorry, even when you feel my arguments are not much understood, but my argument can not be deleted, so in the end I tried to respond as simple as possible. Once again. sorry for this.
This isn’t the case though. It’s possible for us to construct simple sets of rules different from those of our own reality which can potentially give rise to intelligent life (John Conway’s Game of Life being the example given in that article.) The set of rules is not intelligent, but entities which exist within the system can be.
The potential for intelligences to exist must be inherent in the set of rules, that’s obvious, but this is simply a consequence of how entities obeying the rules interact. It’s not as if “Intelligence: allowed” is inscribed on some cosmic natural order. Nobody even has a concrete idea of what it would mean if that were true.
If you want a word for an entity that encompasses all things derived from itself, what’s wrong with “universe?”
Please note that there is an axiom to show that something has a connection directly or indirectly with the awareness. And it can be tested by being able to travel from point A towards a certain direction and return to starting point A. This proves that something should be considered able to adapt and communicate directly or indirectly with us.
And the more difficult things to establish movement patterns near circular trajectory, parabolic, it indicates the less chance of something considered to have a conscious and able to adapt and communicate better.
If there is something is big enough (planet) and considered difficult compared to our lifes to forms the trajectory approaching the form of spheres or parabolic, but it did, then it assert that there is a consciousness that has the quality to adapt a more diverse and better communication.
If something more intelligent, then something will be increasingly able to demonstrate the ability to create movement closer to parabolic trajectory or circle. This is the axiom.
What basis do we have for adopting that as an axiom? It seems completely arbitrary.
The momentum of something that moves without any obstacles at all will likely move to a perpendicular direction.
Something (gravity etc) that forcing something else to form as an angular movement (closer to parabolic or circle), then it requires the resistance that is not random.
Moreover, for the motion that closer to parabolic or circular and it was happened over and over again, then this further indicates the existence of resistance to the linear momentum that is not random and directed, and this confirms there is something behind it, and it’s the existence of intelligence and strength enough to adjust and controlling.
We can validate it with empirical evidence, and easy to know in everyday life.
A dog that is chasing its tail.
Computer simulation featuring a circular image, it simply shows the intelligence behind the computer, and it has been proven which is human.
and other similar with these, etc, …
The more neat for something doing movements (left traces in the form of) that is closer to the parabolic shape or a circle with a greater difficulty (compared to our lifes) and it was happened again and again, the more shows there is the existence of an intelligent with the power which is also higher (large).
Can you explain this further? On face value, this appears to be either meaningless or false.
Celestial bodies tend to move with negligible resistance, and there’s no reason to hypothesize an intelligence guiding them when exceedingly simple rules of motion explain their behavior quite precisely.
If you can follow it, it may be helpful for you to read this. You appear to be reasoning by analogy when the mechanisms behind the things you’re referring to do not support the comparison.
On outer space, if something is thrown, then the object will travel a straight path. Please try to use your feeling (your sense of self-evidence), whether the object will turn from its original direction (if there is no obstacle)? Of course not. If the object is in conflict or are attracted by gravity from another object, maybe it’ll shift. And if the attractiveness of the object is stopped, then this object will be shifted from its original direction but not in a circle.
Imagine a missile exploring a space and bound by a strong rope in its nose. When the missile is traveling in a straight direction, then pull the rope on the missile until the missile is enough to make the shift, then cut the rope, so the missile can travel free to move forward in accordance with the residual energy.
Are you aware of this? Missiles will be shifted but did not form a circular path. If necessary, the rope can be drawn continuously (with supervision—consciousness) to shift the missile and withdrawn continuously to form a round, but this reflects a conscious effort (intelligent).
Or after shifting, the rope is released and a new missile has a trajectory different from the original trajectory (but not a circle). Or taken over by the program to return to its original position, and this shows there is intervention of intelligence.
Here asserted that the missile which shifted from its original direction of movement will tend to have a new path which will never form a parabolic or circular.
Do you believe in someone who said he had seen a missile shot and after a hit by something and still be able to continue the trip, the missile is moving in different directions with the direction of movement that is almost close to parabolic or circular path (and this is done without using a program or without the remote control by humans that is considered to have intelligence)?
Suppose you look at the super computer that is turned on for weeks and just make a simulation of image as a circle. Is this enough to show us there will always be a simulation of image as a circle that repeated for many times, so it is considered there is no intelligence (programming) guiding the supercomputer?
Let us now thinking by scaling with our own reality. We see through a smaller scale in our lives. Is there something not worth mentioning as intelligent but it can form a movement from A back to A or more perfect again by forming a pattern of near parabolic shape or a circle?
Maybe we have been so affected by the circumstances of the movement pattern of celestial objects are repeated continuously so as to give the impression as it is without any effort (negligible resistance), automatically or similar to these, etc. Strong enough to ignore the existence of resistance. But this is actually a relative.
Negligible resistance? Because of what?
It’s not about analogy, but it’s about thinking by scaling.
Thank you for this http://lesswrong.com/lw/rj/surface_analogies_and_deep_causes/
It’s been known since the day of Galileo that an object can attain a circular trajectory by traveling at an appropriate speed perpendicular to gravity. It does not take intelligence to make objects travel in circles, just an extremely simple set of rules.
In relativistic physics, celestial bodies are in fact traveling in the straightest possible trajectories through curved space.
You’re invoking complex explanations to account for simple phenomena.
As you said: ” It does not take intelligence to make objects travel in circles, just an extremely simple set of rules.”
But when people find the set of rules, it shows the human intelligence and also show that such a rule was made by something intelligent. This is the same as someone who breaks a secret code in written form, and after can be known and shown to have conformity with reality, then this indicates that the secret code created by humans or beings with intelligence similar to or more than human.
As you said: “celestial bodies are in fact traveling in the straightest possible trajectories through curved space”
It’s not a problem. The possibility that a planet circulating around the sun because of being pulled (classical theory) or it happened because they were held by a curved space, it still shows a force or property that has a characteristic capable delivering simulation near parabolic or circular motion.
One more thing, I’m also not simplify anything, but I just try to see things from another perspective and see what’s there. On further application should stick to relevancy. When talking about nature and how to interact, then we can not let go of physical explanation, but at least when we talk about an awareness that higher than our own, then physics has room for it.
Using intelligence to discover something does not mean that the thing that was discovered was done with intelligence. I’m having a hard time forming a coherent argument against it, because it’s basically a non sequitur, like 1+1=2, therefore I am the discoverer of America.
I don’t think there’s much point in my continuing this. If you can read and demonstrate that you understand all the sequences, then we might be able to get somewhere, but at this point, you’re making some very basic and fundamental errors; and they are errors, not simply disagreement, and I don’t think we’re communicating effectively enough to dispel them.
As you said: “Using intelligence to discover something does not mean that the thing that was discovered was done with intelligence. I’m having a hard time forming a coherent argument against it, because it’s basically a non sequitur, like 1+1=2, therefore I am the discoverer of America.”
I am not saying something irrelevant, It’s not like that. What I mean:
When doing activities that involve patterns of circles, thinking in a circular patterns, researching things, and there are many circular patterns involved and occur repeatedly. This shows that we are facing a lot of evidence of intelligence related to what we’re dealing with.
I confirm that all that we face (if not for all) have a lot of crossing patterns and return to its original position, the circle, and this is enough for us to show the existence of intelligence behind it all.
Tracking something in relation to this case which involves a parabolic pattern and circle, or in other words think of something, make an argument involving parabolic and circular pattern, it also indicates the existence of intelligence.
Protecting—self defense in such way that leave a trail near parabolic or circular pattern, it indicates there is something intelligent involved.
Circles are not evidence of intelligence. Take an object moving in a straight line and apply centripetal acceleration to it, and you have circular motion. It’s one of the easiest things in the universe to do.
Unless you go out of your way to demonstrate that you’ve read the rest of the sequences and understood them, this is the last I am going to respond.
Universe does not cover everything, universe just as a place for everything. All qualities are not derived from the universe, because if this is true, then at least there are signs that the universe has a quality of one of thing that derived from the universe itself, which is able to communicate. It’s just a place. We are not within universe, but universe within us.
A set must have the potential of members of a set. Universe encompasses all only as far as accommodating, but it does not have the potential to communicate like humans
If a man makes a work of whatever it is, certainly at one time, there will be a work that reflects the characteristics of humanity, and demonstrated ability to interact with humans, but we understand the axioms that the universe would never have characteristics that can be attributed to humans, but only to be places . Among the universe with human and the other is the complementary for each other.
It doesn’t actually follow from your argument that this is problematic at all though.
I don’t want to be rude, but I think your English fluency is really impeding your ability to argue your point. A lot of what you’re saying doesn’t make sense, and it’s difficult to tell how much of it is due to lack of familiarity with the language. For your benefit, I should point out that this is not a community where this statement
holds true. Members of this community in general are quite well equipped to follow symbolic logic, and if a lot of people here are telling you that you’re saying something that doesn’t make sense, it’s worth taking seriously the idea that rather than having an audience that doesn’t understand, you may actually not be making sense.
When you can not understand something, at least you can explain the essence of something that you can not understand, even if it’s wrong, to show that you can not understand, and to demonstrate that the essence of an explanation can not completely understood, and it can not be understood not by appearance, but because its essence can not be understood
Anyway, If it does not help, sorry, even when you feel my arguments are not much understood, but my argument can not be deleted, so in the end I tried to respond as simple as possible. Once again. sorry for this.
Thank you as i mentioned before, if somehow, we still unable to make intelligible communication, then i should delete my argument. that’s all. thanks