I haven’t seen many beginners who can’t hit depth on a high-bar or low-bar squat because of ankle mobility issues. If there are mobility problems, they’re usually in the hips.
This is exactly the issue I am addressing. Lumbar rounding is not caused by hip inflexibility.
That’s exactly the point I’m disagreeing with—It doesn’t match my experiences teaching and watching beginner lifters. Can you elaborate on your evidence?
I admittedly don’t have as much experience with beginners learning to high bar squat, and high bar definitely takes more ankle flexibility than low bar. But based on what I’ve seen, it’s hard to believe it’s that common a problem even for high bar.
What makes me skeptical is that I have seen many beginners (including myself at one point) believe that they needed more ankle flexibility to squat properly, but actually the problem was that they weren’t sitting back enough, like on the left here:
That applies more to low bar squats than high bar squats, but it’s a common problem for both.
Speaking of which! I don’t have strong feeling either way, but you are very convinced that high bar squatting will cause fewer injuries than low bar squatting. I’d love to hear more about your evidence for that, as well. It seems plausible to me based on the mechanics of the movement but I don’t know if it’s actually true, and how big the difference in injury rate is if there is one.
If you’re going to assert that beginners should high bar squat, and that you need $100 shoes to high bar squat properly, you’d better be pretty sure that high bar squats are actually significantly safer than low bar squats. If the difference is small, most beginners are better off saving their $100 and low bar squatting instead.
Based on the mechanics of the movement, and the experience of watching many many people do low bar squats with dangerous form, the burden of proof should be on low bar squats. You are focusing on the $100 shoes and ignoring that lower back injuries are pervasive, debilitating, and hugely expensive in terms of quality of life and money. If $100 lowers your chance of a back injury by 1%, it is likely worth it, given that people with injured lower backs would gladly pay 10k to get rid of it. The amortized cost is also extremely low. If you only wear your WL shoes at the gym the will last 5 years.
Also, I can honestly say that WL shoes are worth it for the subjective improvement in how squatting feels alone. And you don’t need to buy the shoes to try out the difference. Just get something around .75 high, put your heels on it, and squat with your body weight. The difference is immediately apparent.
You sit back less in a high bar squat, but you do sit back. Personally when I was first learning to squat I was learning high bar and I wasn’t sitting back enough. I’ve seen this in other beginners, too. It sounds like our anecdotal experiences don’t match up and neither one of us has much more to go on, so we probably just won’t agree. That’s fine.
Personally, I’m all for WL shoes. I have some and I love them. But I also think it’s important not to scare people away from trying the sport. If they think they need $100 specialty shoes to get started, they probably won’t bother. Putting your heels on a plate or board is great to try it out but I’ll admit it makes me cringe a little thinking about how unstable that must be. It’s probably fine for someone just starting out with low weight though.
PS—In case it wasn’t clear, I really like your post. I am nitpicking over minor quibbles here, but your main points are great. Thanks for writing it.
This is exactly the issue I am addressing. Lumbar rounding is not caused by hip inflexibility.
That’s exactly the point I’m disagreeing with—It doesn’t match my experiences teaching and watching beginner lifters. Can you elaborate on your evidence?
I admittedly don’t have as much experience with beginners learning to high bar squat, and high bar definitely takes more ankle flexibility than low bar. But based on what I’ve seen, it’s hard to believe it’s that common a problem even for high bar.
What makes me skeptical is that I have seen many beginners (including myself at one point) believe that they needed more ankle flexibility to squat properly, but actually the problem was that they weren’t sitting back enough, like on the left here:
http://www.nerdfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Screen-Shot-2014-02-24-at-4.27.47-AM-713x402.png
That applies more to low bar squats than high bar squats, but it’s a common problem for both.
Speaking of which! I don’t have strong feeling either way, but you are very convinced that high bar squatting will cause fewer injuries than low bar squatting. I’d love to hear more about your evidence for that, as well. It seems plausible to me based on the mechanics of the movement but I don’t know if it’s actually true, and how big the difference in injury rate is if there is one.
If you’re going to assert that beginners should high bar squat, and that you need $100 shoes to high bar squat properly, you’d better be pretty sure that high bar squats are actually significantly safer than low bar squats. If the difference is small, most beginners are better off saving their $100 and low bar squatting instead.
You don’t sit back in high bar squats.
Based on the mechanics of the movement, and the experience of watching many many people do low bar squats with dangerous form, the burden of proof should be on low bar squats. You are focusing on the $100 shoes and ignoring that lower back injuries are pervasive, debilitating, and hugely expensive in terms of quality of life and money. If $100 lowers your chance of a back injury by 1%, it is likely worth it, given that people with injured lower backs would gladly pay 10k to get rid of it. The amortized cost is also extremely low. If you only wear your WL shoes at the gym the will last 5 years.
Also, I can honestly say that WL shoes are worth it for the subjective improvement in how squatting feels alone. And you don’t need to buy the shoes to try out the difference. Just get something around .75 high, put your heels on it, and squat with your body weight. The difference is immediately apparent.
You sit back less in a high bar squat, but you do sit back. Personally when I was first learning to squat I was learning high bar and I wasn’t sitting back enough. I’ve seen this in other beginners, too. It sounds like our anecdotal experiences don’t match up and neither one of us has much more to go on, so we probably just won’t agree. That’s fine.
Personally, I’m all for WL shoes. I have some and I love them. But I also think it’s important not to scare people away from trying the sport. If they think they need $100 specialty shoes to get started, they probably won’t bother. Putting your heels on a plate or board is great to try it out but I’ll admit it makes me cringe a little thinking about how unstable that must be. It’s probably fine for someone just starting out with low weight though.
PS—In case it wasn’t clear, I really like your post. I am nitpicking over minor quibbles here, but your main points are great. Thanks for writing it.