Voldemort is lying in parseltongue. He’s not going to kill Harry because he can’t. He can’t because the curse or unbreakable vow he took to not harm himself didn’t have release conditions. There was no purpose in putting them in. You don’t set up “I can’t kill myself unless I try to kill myself”, because the 2nd part is useless if the first part works.
“But you tried to end my true life jusst then, sstupid child. Now cursse iss lifted, and I may kill you any time I wissh.”
You sir, are a lying liar who lies in parseltongue. Or Harry would be dead right now. Indeed, he would have been dead long ago.
Voldemort is not allowed to kill a version of himself, period. This is how he intended to get around the prisoner’s dilemma with his eternal chess buddy. There were to be no clever “Baba Yaga draws Perverelle’s blood” outs that would allow someone to murder the foresworn, you were just. not. allowed. Ever. This is the lesson Tom Riddle drew from the story of Baba Yaga; don’t leave that loophole. This is what he did with the Goblet of Fire, perhaps?
We would play the game against each other forever, keeping our lives interesting amid a world of fools. I knew a dramatist would predict that the two of us would end by destroying each other; but I pondered long upon it, and decided that both of us would simply decline to play out the drama. That was my decision and I was confident that it would remain so; both Tom Riddles, I thought, would be too intelligent to truly go down that road.
Voldemort would defect in a heartbeat, and he knows it. He has precluded this possiblity, precluded it so strongly that killing Harry or even willing him killed is either impossible to him or would mean his own death.
Note the instructions he gave to his Death Eaters are non-lethal, and varied, and multiplied by dozens of them. He is taking extraordinary non-lethal precautions. He is taking extraordinary measures to resurrect Hermione to prevent a living Harry from destroying the stars. Voldemort is doing this because he wants desperately to not die, and the more obvious option of just killing the idiot-child of foretold destruction is not available to him.
We have seen him to be afraid of this one. We’ve seen him express intent to stop that destiny at every point of intervention. Killing Harry is a really obvious and seemingly certain point of intervention.
“All thiss, all I have done, iss to ssmassh that desstiny at every point of intervention. If ssome fate makess me fail in what comess next, idiot-child of foretold desstruction, then you musst kill yoursself to ssave girl-child. Elsse all you claim to value diess by your own hand.”
He certainly seems to think that Harry’s death would solve the problem, and he’s willing enough to have Harry kill himself, but not willing to kill Harry. Why?
I just can’t think of anything more valuable to Voldemort than his own continued existence. I assume from this that killing Harry is either not an option or that Voldemort does not believe that killing Harry will save his own life.
That’s true, but if someone is no longer a threat and is more valuable to him alive than dead, then why kill him? Using this logic he would kill everyone he meets.
Everyone he meets who is the apparent subject of not one but two prophecies that gravely threaten Voldemort’s continued existence. I think that’s a little less than everyone.
He can’t because the curse or unbreakable vow he took to not harm himself didn’t have release conditions. There was no purpose in putting them in. You don’t set up “I can’t kill myself unless I try to kill myself”, because the 2nd part is useless if the first part works.
Without the second part any clone of Voldemort exploiting a bug in magic to negate the first would have a huge advantage over all the others. Given the whimsical nature of magic in this story such a bug is highly likely to exist. Voldemort is smart enough to both realize that and know that at least one clone of his would eventually find it. His only correct move is then having to find the bug first, thus wasting his time and negating the point of the curse in the first place.
There was a sequence on decision theory and value of information, which I sadly read but not internalized. Can someone who did please calculate what it’s worth for Voldemort (and Dumbledore) to keep ambiguity unresolved as a preventive measure?
Maybe when Salazar cursed his line (?!..) there were conditions, since having his descendants not plot against each other should come second to ‘not annihilate each other’.
And somewhere here we will hear more about Ravenclaw being sister to Slytherin:)
Another possibility is that there’s a separate curse. Broken curse completely prevents a Riddle from trying to kill a Riddle, second curse imposes consequences. Maybe if one Riddle kills another Riddle, all the Riddles die—that would explain why Quirrellmort hasn’t killed Harrymort. All he says in Parseltongue is that Q may kill H any time Q wishes; there’s nothing that says that Q killing H would have consequences bad enough that Q won’t.
I don’t know if there’s any evidence for this, but it is a possibility that explains why Q hasn’t killed H and doesn’t require lying in Parseltongue. (If there’s a second curse, could that be behind the resonance? Do we know what causes the resonance?)
Another possibility that fits is that prophecies are not to be messed with in that manner.
It could indeed be that he isn’t actually lying in parseltongue, as you suggest. I think I’ve come out too strong on that point. But the threat to kill Harry is a bluff. Voldemort has some really compelling reason to not kill Harry.
Right, he’s not lying. Inability to lie in Parseltongue has been established clearly enough that it would be very odd for it to be broken now. Also, in between two Parseltongue statements, he says in English, “Still a fool. If no further matters remained between us, I would already have killed you.” Why would he switch from Parseltongue to English and back to Parseltongue?
Now, let’s look at what exactly he says.
“But you tried to end my true life jusst then, sstupid child. Now cursse iss lifted, and I may kill you any time I wissh.”
“But you tried to end my true life jusst then, sstupid child.” Harry tried to kill Quirrell. This is accurate.
“Now cursse iss lifted...”—there was, at one point, a curse. This curse, at the time Quirrell is speaking, has been lifted, and no longer holds. What curse? It’s not specified. Is he telling the truth about the details of the curse? He didn’t say it in Parseltongue. Did the Riddle curse exist? It was only introduced in this chapter, and as far as I know, it wasn’t foreshadowed at all. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. But there was some curse that held at one time and no longer holds.
″...and I may kill you any time I wissh.”—he didn’t say “as a result of the curse’s lifting”, and he didn’t say he’s willing to kill him. He just said that it is technically possible.
It could have to do with the bargain from earlier: “I do not intend to raisse my hand or magic againsst you in future, sso long ass you do not raisse your hand or magic againsst me.”
Why would he switch from Parseltongue to English and back to Parseltongue?
If Voldemort can lie in Parseltongue, then it’s a ruse to conceal that fact. This has the dual effect of causing Harry to accept the literal truth of what VM says in Parseltongue without question, as well as persuading Harry to not even attempt to tell any direct lies to VM in Parseltongue. Those are both strong advantages manufactured from thin air, and VM is clever enough to spin such a deception.
And “snakes can’t lie”, really? That’s a pretty odd inversion of colloquialisms like “speaking with a forked tongue.” Ssuddenly I feel like ssomeone is trying to ssell me a bridge.
Inability to lie in Parseltongue has been established clearly enough that it would be very odd for it to be broken now.
Has it? Harry performed one simple test at a time when Voldemort expected that test to be performed, and we don’t know that the results weren’t influenced by other magic. We haven’t seen it tested with occlumency. We certainly haven’t seen it tested by a perfect occlumens. Even if we had seen those results it wouldn’t be conclusive about what the most powerful wizard alive, who also knows the secrets of Salazar, is capable of.
I think for meta reasons that I’m probably wrong, but based only on in-world evidence I don’t see any reason at all to take Voldemort’s word that Parseltongue is a language of truth.
Voldemort is lying in parseltongue. He’s not going to kill Harry because he can’t. He can’t because the curse or unbreakable vow he took to not harm himself didn’t have release conditions. There was no purpose in putting them in. You don’t set up “I can’t kill myself unless I try to kill myself”, because the 2nd part is useless if the first part works.
You sir, are a lying liar who lies in parseltongue. Or Harry would be dead right now. Indeed, he would have been dead long ago.
Voldemort is not allowed to kill a version of himself, period. This is how he intended to get around the prisoner’s dilemma with his eternal chess buddy. There were to be no clever “Baba Yaga draws Perverelle’s blood” outs that would allow someone to murder the foresworn, you were just. not. allowed. Ever. This is the lesson Tom Riddle drew from the story of Baba Yaga; don’t leave that loophole. This is what he did with the Goblet of Fire, perhaps?
Voldemort would defect in a heartbeat, and he knows it. He has precluded this possiblity, precluded it so strongly that killing Harry or even willing him killed is either impossible to him or would mean his own death.
Note the instructions he gave to his Death Eaters are non-lethal, and varied, and multiplied by dozens of them. He is taking extraordinary non-lethal precautions. He is taking extraordinary measures to resurrect Hermione to prevent a living Harry from destroying the stars. Voldemort is doing this because he wants desperately to not die, and the more obvious option of just killing the idiot-child of foretold destruction is not available to him.
Not that I think you reason wrongly, but...
And I could be wrong, of course, but if I am I have no idea why Harry is alive.
Because V. is afraid of prophecies?
We have seen him to be afraid of this one. We’ve seen him express intent to stop that destiny at every point of intervention. Killing Harry is a really obvious and seemingly certain point of intervention.
He certainly seems to think that Harry’s death would solve the problem, and he’s willing enough to have Harry kill himself, but not willing to kill Harry. Why?
It is highly improbable that he is lying.
I would guess Harry is more valuable to him alive at the moment than dead (and is incapable of harming him at the moment), and that’s all.
I just can’t think of anything more valuable to Voldemort than his own continued existence. I assume from this that killing Harry is either not an option or that Voldemort does not believe that killing Harry will save his own life.
That’s true, but if someone is no longer a threat and is more valuable to him alive than dead, then why kill him? Using this logic he would kill everyone he meets.
Everyone he meets who is the apparent subject of not one but two prophecies that gravely threaten Voldemort’s continued existence. I think that’s a little less than everyone.
I really don’t think that he should be allowed to lie in Parseltongue. But fooling himself, that he can do.
Without the second part any clone of Voldemort exploiting a bug in magic to negate the first would have a huge advantage over all the others. Given the whimsical nature of magic in this story such a bug is highly likely to exist. Voldemort is smart enough to both realize that and know that at least one clone of his would eventually find it. His only correct move is then having to find the bug first, thus wasting his time and negating the point of the curse in the first place.
There was a sequence on decision theory and value of information, which I sadly read but not internalized. Can someone who did please calculate what it’s worth for Voldemort (and Dumbledore) to keep ambiguity unresolved as a preventive measure?
Maybe when Salazar cursed his line (?!..) there were conditions, since having his descendants not plot against each other should come second to ‘not annihilate each other’.
And somewhere here we will hear more about Ravenclaw being sister to Slytherin:)
Another possibility is that there’s a separate curse. Broken curse completely prevents a Riddle from trying to kill a Riddle, second curse imposes consequences. Maybe if one Riddle kills another Riddle, all the Riddles die—that would explain why Quirrellmort hasn’t killed Harrymort. All he says in Parseltongue is that Q may kill H any time Q wishes; there’s nothing that says that Q killing H would have consequences bad enough that Q won’t.
I don’t know if there’s any evidence for this, but it is a possibility that explains why Q hasn’t killed H and doesn’t require lying in Parseltongue. (If there’s a second curse, could that be behind the resonance? Do we know what causes the resonance?)
Another possibility that fits is that prophecies are not to be messed with in that manner.
It could indeed be that he isn’t actually lying in parseltongue, as you suggest. I think I’ve come out too strong on that point. But the threat to kill Harry is a bluff. Voldemort has some really compelling reason to not kill Harry.
Right, he’s not lying. Inability to lie in Parseltongue has been established clearly enough that it would be very odd for it to be broken now. Also, in between two Parseltongue statements, he says in English, “Still a fool. If no further matters remained between us, I would already have killed you.” Why would he switch from Parseltongue to English and back to Parseltongue?
Now, let’s look at what exactly he says.
“But you tried to end my true life jusst then, sstupid child.” Harry tried to kill Quirrell. This is accurate.
“Now cursse iss lifted...”—there was, at one point, a curse. This curse, at the time Quirrell is speaking, has been lifted, and no longer holds. What curse? It’s not specified. Is he telling the truth about the details of the curse? He didn’t say it in Parseltongue. Did the Riddle curse exist? It was only introduced in this chapter, and as far as I know, it wasn’t foreshadowed at all. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. But there was some curse that held at one time and no longer holds.
″...and I may kill you any time I wissh.”—he didn’t say “as a result of the curse’s lifting”, and he didn’t say he’s willing to kill him. He just said that it is technically possible.
It could have to do with the bargain from earlier: “I do not intend to raisse my hand or magic againsst you in future, sso long ass you do not raisse your hand or magic againsst me.”
If Voldemort can lie in Parseltongue, then it’s a ruse to conceal that fact. This has the dual effect of causing Harry to accept the literal truth of what VM says in Parseltongue without question, as well as persuading Harry to not even attempt to tell any direct lies to VM in Parseltongue. Those are both strong advantages manufactured from thin air, and VM is clever enough to spin such a deception.
And “snakes can’t lie”, really? That’s a pretty odd inversion of colloquialisms like “speaking with a forked tongue.” Ssuddenly I feel like ssomeone is trying to ssell me a bridge.
Has it? Harry performed one simple test at a time when Voldemort expected that test to be performed, and we don’t know that the results weren’t influenced by other magic. We haven’t seen it tested with occlumency. We certainly haven’t seen it tested by a perfect occlumens. Even if we had seen those results it wouldn’t be conclusive about what the most powerful wizard alive, who also knows the secrets of Salazar, is capable of.
I think for meta reasons that I’m probably wrong, but based only on in-world evidence I don’t see any reason at all to take Voldemort’s word that Parseltongue is a language of truth.
He might be able to kill Harry for value of the kill!parseltongue but the Horcrux network would keep Harry alive.