Really? Do you really think everyone who comes off as irrational based on a blog post of theirs that you read shouldn’t be here? (There would be nobody left for you to talk to!) Or are you annoyed at this particular person because they said mean things about a group that contains you?
“This is what motivated cognition looks like. If someone cannot take criticism of their in-group without launching an ad-hominem attack on the critic, then they should not be in a rationalist community.”
Okay disclaimer—reading it did make me feel a little annoyed. Partly due to their writing style, partly due to me identifying with the specific subgroup of LW they’re talking about, and partly on principle.
Really? Do you really think everyone who comes off as irrational based on a blog post of theirs that you read shouldn’t be here?
No but when it’s so clear-cut as in this case, yes.
If someone point-blank does not want to talk at the object-level about some controversial topic, and makes many veiled comments about what kind of nasty group I must belong to in order to entertain such beliefs, and has made it very clear they are happy to withdraw from the entire community surrounding it, what exactly am I supposed to do other than say “here’s the door, have a nice day”?
what exactly am I supposed to do other than say “here’s the door, have a nice day”?
Like you, I think that the linked blogger’s position, as stated, is completely incompatible with the purpose of this community, but I think the point being made by some here is that steelmanning their criticisms, on the off-chance that their reaction might have been triggered by something legitimately criticism-worthy, is an option.
Really? Do you really think everyone who comes off as irrational based on a blog post of theirs that you read shouldn’t be here?
There’s irrationality and then there’s faith-based epistemic insanity. This person actually states that he cannot accept any perceived challenge to their preferred theories. Seriously, read the blogpost. He/she is as rational as the most extreme Christian fundamentalist. Do you really think such folks could ever be productive contributors to this site?
I think it makes a big difference if the preferred theory is gender/racial equality as opposed to fundamentalist Christianity, and whether the opposition to those perceived challenges result from emotional sensitivity as opposed to blind faith. At the very least, the blog post doesn’t indicate that the author would be irrational about issues other than marginalization.
Do you really think such folks could ever be productive contributors to this site?
They can be, but it’s not worth trying to seek them out. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t lukeprog have pretty serious Christian beliefs at one point?
This person actually states that he cannot accept any perceived challenge to their preferred theories.
The “preferred theory” in question is that they are of value as a human, and that they have considerable experience of being treated as not of value as a human, up to and including violence. As preferred theories go, this strikes me as not being an unreasonable one to hold.
If this is what he means by that, then his argument clearly rests on the assumption that the rationalist/LW community actively dehumanizes people like him. This seems so clearly baseless to me that it actually makes for an even less charitable description of his views.
Really? Do you really think everyone who comes off as irrational based on a blog post of theirs that you read shouldn’t be here? (There would be nobody left for you to talk to!) Or are you annoyed at this particular person because they said mean things about a group that contains you?
“This is what motivated cognition looks like. If someone cannot take criticism of their in-group without launching an ad-hominem attack on the critic, then they should not be in a rationalist community.”
That sword cuts both ways.
Okay disclaimer—reading it did make me feel a little annoyed. Partly due to their writing style, partly due to me identifying with the specific subgroup of LW they’re talking about, and partly on principle.
No but when it’s so clear-cut as in this case, yes.
If someone point-blank does not want to talk at the object-level about some controversial topic, and makes many veiled comments about what kind of nasty group I must belong to in order to entertain such beliefs, and has made it very clear they are happy to withdraw from the entire community surrounding it, what exactly am I supposed to do other than say “here’s the door, have a nice day”?
Like you, I think that the linked blogger’s position, as stated, is completely incompatible with the purpose of this community, but I think the point being made by some here is that steelmanning their criticisms, on the off-chance that their reaction might have been triggered by something legitimately criticism-worthy, is an option.
Note to self: start steelmanning more.
There’s irrationality and then there’s faith-based epistemic insanity. This person actually states that he cannot accept any perceived challenge to their preferred theories. Seriously, read the blogpost. He/she is as rational as the most extreme Christian fundamentalist. Do you really think such folks could ever be productive contributors to this site?
I think it makes a big difference if the preferred theory is gender/racial equality as opposed to fundamentalist Christianity, and whether the opposition to those perceived challenges result from emotional sensitivity as opposed to blind faith. At the very least, the blog post doesn’t indicate that the author would be irrational about issues other than marginalization.
Does fundamentalist Christianity indicate that the believer would be irrational about issues other than religion?
If yes, what’s the difference?
They can be, but it’s not worth trying to seek them out. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t lukeprog have pretty serious Christian beliefs at one point?
I find your mismatched pronouns painful.
The “preferred theory” in question is that they are of value as a human, and that they have considerable experience of being treated as not of value as a human, up to and including violence. As preferred theories go, this strikes me as not being an unreasonable one to hold.
If this is what he means by that, then his argument clearly rests on the assumption that the rationalist/LW community actively dehumanizes people like him. This seems so clearly baseless to me that it actually makes for an even less charitable description of his views.
Her. But never mind, I’m sure it’ll all be fine.
If I have no value as a human, I desire to believe I have no value as a human.
Would that desire be enough to qualify you as a human?