In case you’re not aware of the way that posts get to the frontpage on LW 2.0, when users make a post, it first becomes a personal blogpost, and then the mods make a decision about whether or not to move it to the frontpage. This is a question of whether the post is on-topic for LW (which is defined fairly loosely but mostly just avoids politics and things about in-person rationality communities) and whether it is violating any important internet norms (e.g. doxing). I wrote a post about 2 years ago explaining the basics, though it’s fairly long and at some point I should write a shorter version. The way you write about the frontpage sounds to me like you believe the current frontpage/personal distinction mirrors the old Main/Discussion distinction, where users themselves choose to submit things to Main when they think the posts are especially worthwhile to be read. We decided to change that, in large part due to the way posting on Main slide into having higher and higher expectations and caused people to stop writing as much, and even with all the new energy that’s risen out of LW 2.0 I expected that eventually the same forces would cause the site to follow that trajectory again.
Specifically for this post, I have not read most of it yet, but before reading your comment I did not at all consider the hypothesis that the post was attempting to escalate a dominance conflict, mostly because I don’t think I’ve ever seen Kaj do something like that in a decade of writing on LessWrong. When I initially saw the OP, I put it in the reference class of many other posts that reply to individuals (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4) which have generally been received positively or at least neutrally, and frontpaged it.
As an aside, I’ve been very excited reading your LW comments lately PJEby, I remember reading your comments and posts as they were written back when I was 14-15. I’m sorry you had a jarring experience being named a bunch in the OP.
Edit: Cut some unnecessary stuff i.e. things not about the decision to frontpage this post.
I’m sorry you had a jarring experience being named in the OP.
Thank you. It is at least good to know that it was not his decision to put this on the front page, though the number of times I’m named still makes it feel a bit like it’s a calling out, especially since he refers to “pjebyan” practices as if they were what we discussed, rather than the material from UtEB that he himself previously posted.
A lot of what we talked about in the original comments was actually what UtEB describes as reconsolidation, not what I do, because I specifically did not want to get into that here.
Rather, my direct discussion with Kaj was strictly focused on the reductionism issue with parts-oriented models, and the difference between deliberate reconsolidation (ala UtEB) and accidental reconsolidation (ala IFS). It was never supposed to be a referendum on my approach to working with clients or comparing my approach with IFS, outside of me mentioning some reasons why I don’t like to use parts-oriented approaches (like IFS or any of its many predecessors), and how my experiences relate to what’s said in UtEB.
Indeed, the only reason I felt safe to discuss what I did in that previous thread was because I could use UtEB as an example of a reconsolidation-oriented approach other than mine, because I did not wish to create an impression of using LW as a pulpit from which to preach my own gospel. The unexpected combination of “suddently frontpage” and “naming names/ascribing positions” was quite unpleasant, as it made it feel like I was being shoved into a frame of doing that in direct opposition to my attempts to keep the previous discussion focused on general schools of thought (e.g. behaviorism vs. “parts”, deliberate vs. accidental reconsoldiation, etc.) rather than being about “my way is better than yours”.
After all, as the guidelines say, “aim to explain, not persuade”.
(That being said, I can also see how the frame shift probably seems way more visible and salient to me than it does to anybody else, and on a re-read of the article, even I can see that the parts that got me upset are really very tiny in comparison to the whole. It’s also pretty understandable in retrospect why Kaj could easily have thought I was arguing for a model of my own, rather than speaking generically, without him having any intention to distort my views or attribute his own views to me… even as it’s also understandable why the situation inclined me to give more weight to the reverse hypothesis.)
If I recall correctly, I frontpaged the OP.
In case you’re not aware of the way that posts get to the frontpage on LW 2.0, when users make a post, it first becomes a personal blogpost, and then the mods make a decision about whether or not to move it to the frontpage. This is a question of whether the post is on-topic for LW (which is defined fairly loosely but mostly just avoids politics and things about in-person rationality communities) and whether it is violating any important internet norms (e.g. doxing). I wrote a post about 2 years ago explaining the basics, though it’s fairly long and at some point I should write a shorter version. The way you write about the frontpage sounds to me like you believe the current frontpage/personal distinction mirrors the old Main/Discussion distinction, where users themselves choose to submit things to Main when they think the posts are especially worthwhile to be read. We decided to change that, in large part due to the way posting on Main slide into having higher and higher expectations and caused people to stop writing as much, and even with all the new energy that’s risen out of LW 2.0 I expected that eventually the same forces would cause the site to follow that trajectory again.
Specifically for this post, I have not read most of it yet, but before reading your comment I did not at all consider the hypothesis that the post was attempting to escalate a dominance conflict, mostly because I don’t think I’ve ever seen Kaj do something like that in a decade of writing on LessWrong. When I initially saw the OP, I put it in the reference class of many other posts that reply to individuals (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4) which have generally been received positively or at least neutrally, and frontpaged it.
As an aside, I’ve been very excited reading your LW comments lately PJEby, I remember reading your comments and posts as they were written back when I was 14-15. I’m sorry you had a jarring experience being named a bunch in the OP.
Edit: Cut some unnecessary stuff i.e. things not about the decision to frontpage this post.
Thank you. It is at least good to know that it was not his decision to put this on the front page, though the number of times I’m named still makes it feel a bit like it’s a calling out, especially since he refers to “pjebyan” practices as if they were what we discussed, rather than the material from UtEB that he himself previously posted.
A lot of what we talked about in the original comments was actually what UtEB describes as reconsolidation, not what I do, because I specifically did not want to get into that here.
Rather, my direct discussion with Kaj was strictly focused on the reductionism issue with parts-oriented models, and the difference between deliberate reconsolidation (ala UtEB) and accidental reconsolidation (ala IFS). It was never supposed to be a referendum on my approach to working with clients or comparing my approach with IFS, outside of me mentioning some reasons why I don’t like to use parts-oriented approaches (like IFS or any of its many predecessors), and how my experiences relate to what’s said in UtEB.
Indeed, the only reason I felt safe to discuss what I did in that previous thread was because I could use UtEB as an example of a reconsolidation-oriented approach other than mine, because I did not wish to create an impression of using LW as a pulpit from which to preach my own gospel. The unexpected combination of “suddently frontpage” and “naming names/ascribing positions” was quite unpleasant, as it made it feel like I was being shoved into a frame of doing that in direct opposition to my attempts to keep the previous discussion focused on general schools of thought (e.g. behaviorism vs. “parts”, deliberate vs. accidental reconsoldiation, etc.) rather than being about “my way is better than yours”.
After all, as the guidelines say, “aim to explain, not persuade”.
(That being said, I can also see how the frame shift probably seems way more visible and salient to me than it does to anybody else, and on a re-read of the article, even I can see that the parts that got me upset are really very tiny in comparison to the whole. It’s also pretty understandable in retrospect why Kaj could easily have thought I was arguing for a model of my own, rather than speaking generically, without him having any intention to distort my views or attribute his own views to me… even as it’s also understandable why the situation inclined me to give more weight to the reverse hypothesis.)
Recently clarified guidelines: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/5conQhfa4rgb4SaWx/site-guide-personal-blogposts-vs-frontpage-posts