...my motivation has been “I see people around me succeeding by these means where I have failed, and I want to be like them”.
Seems like noticing yourself wanting to imitate successful people around you should be an occasion for self-scrutiny. Do you really have good reasons to think the things you’re imitating them on are the cause of their success? Are the people you’re imitating more successful than other people who don’t do those things, but who you don’t interact with as much? Or is this more about wanting to affiliate the high-status people you happen to be in close proximity to?
It is indeed a cue to look for motivated reasoning. I am not neglecting to do that. I have scrutinized extensively. It is possible to be motivated by very simple emotions while constraining the actions you take to the set endorsed by deliberative reasoning.
The observation that something fits the status-seeking patterns you’ve cached is not strong evidence that nothing else is going on. If you can write off everything anybody does by saying “status” and “signaling” without making predictions about their future behavior—or even looking into their past behavior to see whether they usually fit the patterns—then you’re trapped in a paradigm that’s only good for protecting your current set of beliefs.
Yes, I do have good reasons to think the things I’m imitating are causes of their success. Yes, they’re more successful on average than people who don’t do the things, and indeed I think they’re probably more successful with respect to my values than literally everybody who doesn’t do the things. And I don’t “happen” to be in close proximity to them; I sought them out and became close to them specifically so I could learn from them more efficiently.
I am annoyed by vague, fully general criticisms that don’t engage meaningfully with any of my arguments or musings, let alone steel man them.
Seems like noticing yourself wanting to imitate successful people around you should be an occasion for self-scrutiny. Do you really have good reasons to think the things you’re imitating them on are the cause of their success? Are the people you’re imitating more successful than other people who don’t do those things, but who you don’t interact with as much? Or is this more about wanting to affiliate the high-status people you happen to be in close proximity to?
It is indeed a cue to look for motivated reasoning. I am not neglecting to do that. I have scrutinized extensively. It is possible to be motivated by very simple emotions while constraining the actions you take to the set endorsed by deliberative reasoning.
The observation that something fits the status-seeking patterns you’ve cached is not strong evidence that nothing else is going on. If you can write off everything anybody does by saying “status” and “signaling” without making predictions about their future behavior—or even looking into their past behavior to see whether they usually fit the patterns—then you’re trapped in a paradigm that’s only good for protecting your current set of beliefs.
Yes, I do have good reasons to think the things I’m imitating are causes of their success. Yes, they’re more successful on average than people who don’t do the things, and indeed I think they’re probably more successful with respect to my values than literally everybody who doesn’t do the things. And I don’t “happen” to be in close proximity to them; I sought them out and became close to them specifically so I could learn from them more efficiently.
I am annoyed by vague, fully general criticisms that don’t engage meaningfully with any of my arguments or musings, let alone steel man them.