As an EA, please don’t try and pin this on us. The claims are more relevant to the rationality community than the EA community. On the other hand, if you think the piece is irrelevant or poorly written and doesn’t belong anywhere, then be epistemically brave and say that. You are totally allowed to think and express that, but don’t try and push it off on the EA Forum. If this piece doesn’t belong here, it doesn’t belong there.
(fwiw as things stand it’s already crossposted there!)
It was crossposted after I commented, and did find a better reception on EA Forum.
I did not mean my comment to imply that the community here does not need to be less wrong. However, I do think that that there is a difference between what is appropriate to post here and what is appropriate to post on the EA Forum.
I reject a norm that I ought to be epistemically brave and criticise the piece in any detail. It is totally appropriate to just downvote bad posts and move on. Writing a helpful meta-comment to the poster is a non-obligatory prosocial action.
I reject a norm that I ought to be epistemically brave and criticise the piece in any detail.
Fine. It’s fine to say nothing and just downvote, sure. Also fine to have said, “this looks like it should go on the EA Forum too”.
It.. did find a better reception on EA Forum… I do think that that there is a difference between what is appropriate to post here and what is appropriate to post on the EA Forum.
Sigh. I suspect you have missed my point or you are missing understanding of what EA forum really is. The EA Forum is where people can ask questions and discuss effective causes, interventions, and ways of being. The latter is similar to LW rationality but broader scope into moral behavior. If something does not have expected effect of increasing good done and solving problems, it should not be posted on the EA Forum. Yes, the EA Forum has community news, but so does LW, as LW also has community meetups and posts discussing communitybuilding tactics. And LW is where some original discussion about the cases in the Bloomberg piece occurred (re: Vassar, Brent Dill, CFAR).
So it is not fine is to imply this clearly ratfocused piece goes there and not here. If it is appropriate for the EA Forum it is appropriate for here. Period. Fine, it is getting more interest there. But just because it is getting better reception on the EA Forum doesn’t mean it should be. That is still not really a point that it should go there, if you think it doesn’t go on LW (having factored in the paragraph above this one) and you care about the epistemics of the EA forum (which, it would be very rude not to!!).
Yes, the EA Forum has a problem with being more drama hungry and shaming. But this is a problem, not something users on LW should lean into and throw it under the bus. doesn’t mean a piece that the forum might “go for” necessarily belongs there. That the audience might go for it does not imply that it is in line with the actual purpose of the EA Forum: to increase effectiveness. For Example: Theoretically, I could post a salacious 3 page story full of misquotes and false claims and lacking context and scale, and theoretically the EA forum audience might make that salacious post of mine the most upvoted and most discussed post in all the forum’s history. BUT that doesn’t mean my 3 page story should have gone on the EA Forum. Even if people might drink it up, it would not belong there by definition of being a bad irrelevant piece.
And again, if this post is true and relevant, it is more relevant to the rationality community. Flat out. It might belong in both places, but it definitely does not belong only on the EA Forum.
I apologize for my bluntness but come on. Some of us are trying to keep the EA Forum from falling into chaos and undue self flagellation, and be the best forum it can be. Maybe you never hung out there but it used to epic and community drama has significantly worsened it. It’s honestly hard to convey how frustrating it is to see that a LW user would try to throw the EA Forum under the bus and typecast the EA Forum when EA Forum users and mods are working hard to try to undo the community overfocus that never should have happened there. And it honestly reads like you don’t respect the EA Forum and are essentially treating it with snobbery, that the LW audience is either too epistemically sound for this piece, or just too good for it… but not the EA Forum audience who should handle all the community gruntwork you don’t like I guess. (Newsflash: we don’t like it either)
A final different point: Have you considered that perhaps some of the reason the EA Forum can be typecast as so “community focused” is because users here on LW would just happily throw all the drama they aren’t willing to handle head on, over there to the EA Forum? To the extent this Bloomberg piece has to do with the rationality community (almost totally), the rationality community should 100% own it as part of their past and acknowledge it (which it looks like other LW users are somewhat doing) so the EAs are not unfairly forced to host and handle rationalistcaused problems (either resulting valid concerns or resulting invalid PR disasters) again.
I strongly support your efforts to improve the EA Forum, and I can see your point that using upvotes as a proxy for appropriateness fails when there is a deliberate effort to push the forum in a better direction.
As an EA, please don’t try and pin this on us. The claims are more relevant to the rationality community than the EA community. On the other hand, if you think the piece is irrelevant or poorly written and doesn’t belong anywhere, then be epistemically brave and say that. You are totally allowed to think and express that, but don’t try and push it off on the EA Forum. If this piece doesn’t belong here, it doesn’t belong there.
(fwiw as things stand it’s already crossposted there!)
It was crossposted after I commented, and did find a better reception on EA Forum.
I did not mean my comment to imply that the community here does not need to be less wrong. However, I do think that that there is a difference between what is appropriate to post here and what is appropriate to post on the EA Forum.
I reject a norm that I ought to be epistemically brave and criticise the piece in any detail. It is totally appropriate to just downvote bad posts and move on. Writing a helpful meta-comment to the poster is a non-obligatory prosocial action.
Fine. It’s fine to say nothing and just downvote, sure. Also fine to have said, “this looks like it should go on the EA Forum too”.
Sigh. I suspect you have missed my point or you are missing understanding of what EA forum really is. The EA Forum is where people can ask questions and discuss effective causes, interventions, and ways of being. The latter is similar to LW rationality but broader scope into moral behavior. If something does not have expected effect of increasing good done and solving problems, it should not be posted on the EA Forum. Yes, the EA Forum has community news, but so does LW, as LW also has community meetups and posts discussing communitybuilding tactics. And LW is where some original discussion about the cases in the Bloomberg piece occurred (re: Vassar, Brent Dill, CFAR).
So it is not fine is to imply this clearly ratfocused piece goes there and not here. If it is appropriate for the EA Forum it is appropriate for here. Period. Fine, it is getting more interest there. But just because it is getting better reception on the EA Forum doesn’t mean it should be. That is still not really a point that it should go there, if you think it doesn’t go on LW (having factored in the paragraph above this one) and you care about the epistemics of the EA forum (which, it would be very rude not to!!).
Yes, the EA Forum has a problem with being more drama hungry and shaming. But this is a problem, not something users on LW should lean into and throw it under the bus. doesn’t mean a piece that the forum might “go for” necessarily belongs there. That the audience might go for it does not imply that it is in line with the actual purpose of the EA Forum: to increase effectiveness. For Example: Theoretically, I could post a salacious 3 page story full of misquotes and false claims and lacking context and scale, and theoretically the EA forum audience might make that salacious post of mine the most upvoted and most discussed post in all the forum’s history. BUT that doesn’t mean my 3 page story should have gone on the EA Forum. Even if people might drink it up, it would not belong there by definition of being a bad irrelevant piece.
And again, if this post is true and relevant, it is more relevant to the rationality community. Flat out. It might belong in both places, but it definitely does not belong only on the EA Forum.
I apologize for my bluntness but come on. Some of us are trying to keep the EA Forum from falling into chaos and undue self flagellation, and be the best forum it can be. Maybe you never hung out there but it used to epic and community drama has significantly worsened it. It’s honestly hard to convey how frustrating it is to see that a LW user would try to throw the EA Forum under the bus and typecast the EA Forum when EA Forum users and mods are working hard to try to undo the community overfocus that never should have happened there. And it honestly reads like you don’t respect the EA Forum and are essentially treating it with snobbery, that the LW audience is either too epistemically sound for this piece, or just too good for it… but not the EA Forum audience who should handle all the community gruntwork you don’t like I guess. (Newsflash: we don’t like it either)
A final different point: Have you considered that perhaps some of the reason the EA Forum can be typecast as so “community focused” is because users here on LW would just happily throw all the drama they aren’t willing to handle head on, over there to the EA Forum? To the extent this Bloomberg piece has to do with the rationality community (almost totally), the rationality community should 100% own it as part of their past and acknowledge it (which it looks like other LW users are somewhat doing) so the EAs are not unfairly forced to host and handle rationalistcaused problems (either resulting valid concerns or resulting invalid PR disasters) again.
I strongly support your efforts to improve the EA Forum, and I can see your point that using upvotes as a proxy for appropriateness fails when there is a deliberate effort to push the forum in a better direction.
Thank you so much for understanding, and sticking with my lengthy comment long enough to understand
Please don’t pin the actions of others on me!
Wasn’t doing that.