Thoughts on the King, Warrior, Magician, Lover archetypes?
Having been at the self-dev, PUA, systems, psychology, lesswrong, kegan, philosophy, and other things—game for a very long time. My discerning eye suggests that some of the model is good, and some is bad. My advice to anyone looking at that model is that there are equal parts shit and diamonds. If you haven’t been reading in this area for 9 years you can’t see what’s what. Don’t hold anything too closely but be a sponge and absorb it all. Throw out the shit when you come across it and keep the diamonds.
At the end of the 4 (KWML) pages suggest some various intelligent and reasonable ways to develop one’s self:
Take up a martial art.
Do something that scares you.
Work on becoming more decisive.
Meditate. Especially on death.
Quit should- ing on yourself.
Find your core values.
Have a plan and purpose for your life.
Boost your adaptability by strengthening your resilience.
Study and practice the skills necessary for completing your goals, become a master of your trade.
Find the principles that you’re loyal to.
Establish some non-negotiable, unalterable terms (or N.U.Ts) and live by them.
Compete in a race like the Warrior Dash.
Strengthen your discipline by establishing habits and daily routines.
Adopt a minimalist philosophy. Declutter your life. Simplify your diet. Get out of debt.
Commit to lifelong learning
Meditate
Create more, consume less.
Work with your hands.
Take part in a rite of passage
Find a mentor
Become a mentor
Join a Fraternal organization like the Freemasons
Carve out a sacred space in your life
Create more, consume less
Leave a legacy
Develop practical wisdom
Become a mentor
Find a mentor
Establish your core values
Develop the virtue of order
Break away from your mother
Develop a life plan
Develop the traits of true leadership
Protect the sanctity of your ideas
Become decisive
Avoid the corruption of money, power,and sex
Live with integrity
These suggestions are not bad. save possibly the suggestion to take up a martial art which I disagree with and doing something that scares you. Anything that gets people to establish their purpose, have a plan and be more the people they want to be is a good thing.
Things like, “Work on becoming more decisive” are likely only to help the people who already think they are not decisive enough. Those who are decisive enough will probably skip it. HOWEVER if you already were* Study and practice the skills necessary for completing your goals, become a master of your trade. decisive and you thought you weren’t you might end up down a rabbit hole trying to work out how to do the thing that you don’t need to do.
Quit should- ing on yourself.
Nate soares has a post on “should’s” as well. http://mindingourway.com/not-because-you-should/ it’s different but also covers the suggestion of not doing what you “should” but doing what you want to do instead.
Study and practice the skills necessary for completing your goals, become a master of your trade.
So yea; do what you are doing with massive focus. Be so good they can’t ignore you TM. etc. etc. This is not the first place to suggest such things. And I strongly believe that for some people this method of delivering advice is exactly what they need. For other’s it’s exactly not what they need. Good luck figuring out if it’s you or not.
Is there more useful signal than noise here? It depends on who you are, where you are, and how good you are at working that out for yourself.
All I can say is—“maybe”.
End note: I hope to soon write up a post on making advice applicable and thinking about basically “It depends on who you are, where you are, and how good you are at working that out for yourself.” in more detail.
I’ve done a fair amount of reading and am comfortable in the social/PUA realm but am always on the lookout for more recommended resources (especially higher-level stuff).
The model is meaningless beyond what it suggests you do. If I were to spend a long time understanding the whole damn model I could possibly end up generating my own predictive set of ideas from that model. Because I have not spent that time—it’s easier for me to just look at the (already generated) outputs of the model and comment on the results. I am not 100% sure that all those suggestions fit within the model itself but generally if the site ends in those kinds of suggestions, as above:
Is there more useful signal than noise here? It depends on who you are, where you are, and how good you are at working that out for yourself.
No, if you ignore the model you ignore the reason of why people recommend King, Warrior, Magician, Lover. I don’t think anybody who recommended that book to me did so, because of a shallow list of recommendations that fits into a few bullet points.
This is similar how taking a list of bulletpoints about CFAR knowledge doesn’t compare to evaluating the value that a CFAR workshop provides to it’s attendies.
Because I have not spent that time—it’s easier for me to just look at the (already generated) outputs of the model and comment on the results.
There’s no value in forming a judgement of a model that one doesn’t understand like this by a shallow look at it.
There plenty of shallow personal development literature out there that people who like to consume listicles but I haven’t heared any recommendations for this book from that audience but mostly from people who think deeper and engage deeply with it.
My current state is that I haven’t read the full book or used the ideas in my life but I know multiple people who do, who value the ideas highly and who are generally good sources of personal development ideas.
Having been at the self-dev, PUA, systems, psychology, lesswrong, kegan, philosophy, and other things—game for a very long time. My discerning eye suggests that some of the model is good, and some is bad. My advice to anyone looking at that model is that there are equal parts shit and diamonds. If you haven’t been reading in this area for 9 years you can’t see what’s what. Don’t hold anything too closely but be a sponge and absorb it all. Throw out the shit when you come across it and keep the diamonds.
At the end of the 4 (KWML) pages suggest some various intelligent and reasonable ways to develop one’s self:
Take up a martial art.
Do something that scares you.
Work on becoming more decisive.
Meditate. Especially on death.
Quit should- ing on yourself.
Find your core values.
Have a plan and purpose for your life.
Boost your adaptability by strengthening your resilience.
Study and practice the skills necessary for completing your goals, become a master of your trade.
Find the principles that you’re loyal to.
Establish some non-negotiable, unalterable terms (or N.U.Ts) and live by them.
Compete in a race like the Warrior Dash.
Strengthen your discipline by establishing habits and daily routines.
Adopt a minimalist philosophy. Declutter your life. Simplify your diet. Get out of debt.
Commit to lifelong learning
Meditate
Create more, consume less.
Work with your hands.
Take part in a rite of passage
Find a mentor
Become a mentor
Join a Fraternal organization like the Freemasons
Carve out a sacred space in your life
Create more, consume less
Leave a legacy
Develop practical wisdom
Become a mentor
Find a mentor
Establish your core values
Develop the virtue of order
Break away from your mother
Develop a life plan
Develop the traits of true leadership
Protect the sanctity of your ideas
Become decisive
Avoid the corruption of money, power,and sex
Live with integrity
These suggestions are not bad. save possibly the suggestion to take up a martial art which I disagree with and doing something that scares you. Anything that gets people to establish their purpose, have a plan and be more the people they want to be is a good thing.
Things like, “Work on becoming more decisive” are likely only to help the people who already think they are not decisive enough. Those who are decisive enough will probably skip it. HOWEVER if you already were* Study and practice the skills necessary for completing your goals, become a master of your trade. decisive and you thought you weren’t you might end up down a rabbit hole trying to work out how to do the thing that you don’t need to do.
Quit should- ing on yourself.
Nate soares has a post on “should’s” as well. http://mindingourway.com/not-because-you-should/ it’s different but also covers the suggestion of not doing what you “should” but doing what you want to do instead.
Study and practice the skills necessary for completing your goals, become a master of your trade.
So yea; do what you are doing with massive focus. Be so good they can’t ignore you TM. etc. etc. This is not the first place to suggest such things. And I strongly believe that for some people this method of delivering advice is exactly what they need. For other’s it’s exactly not what they need. Good luck figuring out if it’s you or not.
Is there more useful signal than noise here? It depends on who you are, where you are, and how good you are at working that out for yourself.
All I can say is—“maybe”.
End note: I hope to soon write up a post on making advice applicable and thinking about basically “It depends on who you are, where you are, and how good you are at working that out for yourself.” in more detail.
What other resources do you support in this field, ELO?
This is really hard to answer in the context of:
I’d be willing to give it a shot. What problems are you working on at the moment?
I’ve done a fair amount of reading and am comfortable in the social/PUA realm but am always on the lookout for more recommended resources (especially higher-level stuff).
Why do you focus on the suggestions that are also made elsewhere instead of what’s unique in the King, Warrior, Magician, Lover framework?
The model is meaningless beyond what it suggests you do. If I were to spend a long time understanding the whole damn model I could possibly end up generating my own predictive set of ideas from that model. Because I have not spent that time—it’s easier for me to just look at the (already generated) outputs of the model and comment on the results. I am not 100% sure that all those suggestions fit within the model itself but generally if the site ends in those kinds of suggestions, as above:
No, if you ignore the model you ignore the reason of why people recommend King, Warrior, Magician, Lover. I don’t think anybody who recommended that book to me did so, because of a shallow list of recommendations that fits into a few bullet points.
This is similar how taking a list of bulletpoints about CFAR knowledge doesn’t compare to evaluating the value that a CFAR workshop provides to it’s attendies.
There’s no value in forming a judgement of a model that one doesn’t understand like this by a shallow look at it.
There plenty of shallow personal development literature out there that people who like to consume listicles but I haven’t heared any recommendations for this book from that audience but mostly from people who think deeper and engage deeply with it.
I will be delighted to hear your review when you get around to writing it up.
My current state is that I haven’t read the full book or used the ideas in my life but I know multiple people who do, who value the ideas highly and who are generally good sources of personal development ideas.