What we want for ourselves and our descendants is obviously no (or at least no longer) the same a reproductive fitness.
I don’t think any non-human animal ever (consciously) wanted reproductive fitness as such, this being a long-term, multi-generational desire that humans may be the only animal capable of caring about, and I don’t think all that many humans do. On second thought, maybe they do, in the sense that many humans want children and grandchildren. But the things we typically do want by and large enhance our reproductive fitness, so reproductive fitness is, in practice, a good proxy for what we want (though it might be more accurate to say that what we want is a good proxy for reproductive fitness). Good music, for example, comes from good musicians, and a high musical ability is thought to be closely related with sexual selection. Same with athletic ability, intelligence, empathy reliability, trustworthiness, good parenting, and so on and so forth. Pretty much everything we rejoice in about ourselves, Is closely tied one way or another with reproductive fitness.
no reason to rejoice about a future in which humanity is made up of crack-heads.
When I survey the traits that have been and currently still are correlated in the human species with greater reproductive success, I find admirable traits such as those I’ve listed above. You are speculating that at some future date, all these other traits will be swamped by a tendency of welfare crack-heads not to use contraceptives. I don’t have any proof that your scenario is improbable, but still I think it is.
The problem with your comments on this subject isn’t that you dispute the claim that drug addicts are reproducing at a higher than average rate. No one in this thread seems prepared to discuss, in detail that object-level question. The problem is your claim in the comment I replied to that if drug use did not undermine reproduction we should reconsider whether or not drug use is harmful. The reason why others are downvoting you is because regardless of whether or not drug addiction is conducive to reproduction we still have lots of good reasons for considering it harmful and not wanting people to be addicted to drugs.
As for non-admiral traits being selected for—there is an obvious example.
Good music, for example, comes from good musicians, and a high musical ability is thought to be closely related with sexual selection
Castrati: “In the 1720s and 1730s, at the height of the craze for these voices, it has been estimated that upwards of 4,000 boys were castrated annually in the service of art.”
Pretty much everything we rejoice in about ourselves, Is closely tied one way or another with reproductive fitness.
Plus all the numerous male and female religious priesthoods in numerous religions (from Christianity to Buddhism) that take vows of sexual abstinence, and were nonetheless honored for such.
Castrati: “In the 1720s and 1730s, at the height of the craze for these voices, it has been estimated that upwards of 4,000 boys were castrated annually in the service of art.”
I don’t think this in any way undercuts your point, but it is very interesting that the most successful castrati were in fact insanely popular sex symbols during the height of their popularity. They had love affairs and were not infrequently implicated in scandal of one kind or another, although I don’t think they ever got married. Farinelli, the greatest of the great, had rockstar popularity for decades in the 18th century, which came along with sexual status to match. As you might expect, all this business has been written about pretty extensively by historical musicologists in the age of gender studies.
As I’ve said elsewhere, our enjoyment of music seems to be wrapped up in multiple (at times competing) cognitive faculties, and is clearly not reducible to mere sexual/status display, although that is surely a component of it. (It’s not clear to me whether or not Constant was claiming in the grandparent that that is the main or only reason we enjoy music.)
I don’t think any non-human animal ever (consciously) wanted reproductive fitness as such, this being a long-term, multi-generational desire that humans may be the only animal capable of caring about, and I don’t think all that many humans do. On second thought, maybe they do, in the sense that many humans want children and grandchildren. But the things we typically do want by and large enhance our reproductive fitness, so reproductive fitness is, in practice, a good proxy for what we want (though it might be more accurate to say that what we want is a good proxy for reproductive fitness). Good music, for example, comes from good musicians, and a high musical ability is thought to be closely related with sexual selection. Same with athletic ability, intelligence, empathy reliability, trustworthiness, good parenting, and so on and so forth. Pretty much everything we rejoice in about ourselves, Is closely tied one way or another with reproductive fitness.
When I survey the traits that have been and currently still are correlated in the human species with greater reproductive success, I find admirable traits such as those I’ve listed above. You are speculating that at some future date, all these other traits will be swamped by a tendency of welfare crack-heads not to use contraceptives. I don’t have any proof that your scenario is improbable, but still I think it is.
The problem with your comments on this subject isn’t that you dispute the claim that drug addicts are reproducing at a higher than average rate. No one in this thread seems prepared to discuss, in detail that object-level question. The problem is your claim in the comment I replied to that if drug use did not undermine reproduction we should reconsider whether or not drug use is harmful. The reason why others are downvoting you is because regardless of whether or not drug addiction is conducive to reproduction we still have lots of good reasons for considering it harmful and not wanting people to be addicted to drugs.
As for non-admiral traits being selected for—there is an obvious example.
Castrati: “In the 1720s and 1730s, at the height of the craze for these voices, it has been estimated that upwards of 4,000 boys were castrated annually in the service of art.”
Blessed Virgin Mary
The Virgin Queen
The Maid of Orleans
Plus all the numerous male and female religious priesthoods in numerous religions (from Christianity to Buddhism) that take vows of sexual abstinence, and were nonetheless honored for such.
I don’t think this in any way undercuts your point, but it is very interesting that the most successful castrati were in fact insanely popular sex symbols during the height of their popularity. They had love affairs and were not infrequently implicated in scandal of one kind or another, although I don’t think they ever got married. Farinelli, the greatest of the great, had rockstar popularity for decades in the 18th century, which came along with sexual status to match. As you might expect, all this business has been written about pretty extensively by historical musicologists in the age of gender studies.
As I’ve said elsewhere, our enjoyment of music seems to be wrapped up in multiple (at times competing) cognitive faculties, and is clearly not reducible to mere sexual/status display, although that is surely a component of it. (It’s not clear to me whether or not Constant was claiming in the grandparent that that is the main or only reason we enjoy music.)