I think “read the sequences” is an incredibly unhelpful suggestion. It’s an unrealistic high bar for entry. The sequences are absolutely massive. It’s like saying “read the whole bible before talking to anyone at church”, but even longer. And many newcomers already understand the vast bulk of that content. Even the more helpful selected sequences are two thousand pages.
We need a better introduction to alignment work, LessWrong community standards, and rationality. Until we have it, we need to personally be more helpful to aspiring community members.
If someone is too wrong, and explicitly refuses to update on feedback, it may be impossible to give them a short condensed argument.
(If someone said that Jesus was a space lizard from another galaxy who came to China 10000 years ago, and then he publicly declared that he doesn’t actually care whether God actually exists or not… which specific chapter of the Bible would you recommend him to read to make him understand that he is not a good fit for a Christian web forum? Merely using the “Jesus” keyword is not enough, if everything substantial is different.)
Well, yes. I guess it’s more of an… expression of frustration. Like telling the space-lizard-Jesus guy: “Dude, have you ever read the Bible?” You don’t expect he did, and yes that is the reason why he says what he says… but you also do not really expect him to read it now.
(Then he asks you for help at publishing his own space Bible.)
Well what if he bets a significant amount of money at 2000:1 odds that the Pope will officially add his space Bible to the real Bible as a third Testament after the New Testament within the span of a year?
What if he records a video of himself doing Bible study? What if he offers to pay people their currently hourly rate to watch him do Bible study?
I guess the thrust of my questions here is, at what point do you feel that you become the dick for NOT helping him publish his own space Bible? At what point are you actively impeding new religious discoveries by failing to engage?
For real, literal Christianity, I think there’s no amount of cajoling or argumentation that could lead a Christian to accept the new space Bible. For one thing, until the Pope signs off on it, they would no longer be Christian if they did.
Does rationalism aspire to be more than just another provably-false religion? What would ET Jaynes say about people who fail to update on new evidence?
I think “read the sequences” is an incredibly unhelpful suggestion. It’s an unrealistic high bar for entry. The sequences are absolutely massive. It’s like saying “read the whole bible before talking to anyone at church”, but even longer. And many newcomers already understand the vast bulk of that content. Even the more helpful selected sequences are two thousand pages.
We need a better introduction to alignment work, LessWrong community standards, and rationality. Until we have it, we need to personally be more helpful to aspiring community members.
See The 101 Space You Will Always Have With You for a thorough and well-argued version of this argument.
If someone is too wrong, and explicitly refuses to update on feedback, it may be impossible to give them a short condensed argument.
(If someone said that Jesus was a space lizard from another galaxy who came to China 10000 years ago, and then he publicly declared that he doesn’t actually care whether God actually exists or not… which specific chapter of the Bible would you recommend him to read to make him understand that he is not a good fit for a Christian web forum? Merely using the “Jesus” keyword is not enough, if everything substantial is different.)
I agree. But telling them to read the sequences is still pointless.
Well, yes. I guess it’s more of an… expression of frustration. Like telling the space-lizard-Jesus guy: “Dude, have you ever read the Bible?” You don’t expect he did, and yes that is the reason why he says what he says… but you also do not really expect him to read it now.
(Then he asks you for help at publishing his own space Bible.)
Well what if he bets a significant amount of money at 2000:1 odds that the Pope will officially add his space Bible to the real Bible as a third Testament after the New Testament within the span of a year?
What if he records a video of himself doing Bible study? What if he offers to pay people their currently hourly rate to watch him do Bible study?
I guess the thrust of my questions here is, at what point do you feel that you become the dick for NOT helping him publish his own space Bible? At what point are you actively impeding new religious discoveries by failing to engage?
For real, literal Christianity, I think there’s no amount of cajoling or argumentation that could lead a Christian to accept the new space Bible. For one thing, until the Pope signs off on it, they would no longer be Christian if they did.
Does rationalism aspire to be more than just another provably-false religion? What would ET Jaynes say about people who fail to update on new evidence?
I agree that my suggestion was not especially helpful.