Your sources are not very clear about that, and it contradicts what I’ve heard elsewhere, but yes I do admit at the boundaries of where society enforces laws, there do exist people who are forced to do things including prostitution via dominance.
I was once talking with someone who in the past was thinking about opening a brothel and who had some insight about how brothels are run in Germany and who said that a lot of coercion is used.
Recently, I read something from a policeman who was complaining about how the standard of proving coercion for prostitutes is too high. Proving that a prostitute who’s over 21 who left was beaten was not enough in court to convince the court that she falls under the criteria of outlawed exploitation of prostitutions.
I don’t really have any end-to-end narrative, but here’s a bunch of opinion-fragments:
There’s lots of good reason to believe that sometimes there’s dominance-based prostitution. However, all the prostitutes I’ve talked with on these subjects have emphasized that there’s a powerful alliance between prudish leftists and religious people who misrepresent what’s really going on in order to marginalize prostitution, so I’m still inclined to hold your claims to especially high standards, and I don’t really know why you (apparently) trust the organizations that prostitutes oppose so much.
Der Speigel does not describe how they sampled the individual stories they ended up with, and it seems very unlikely that they sampled them the same way that the UN number did, so it doesn’t seem like the UN number should be assumed to reflect stories like the ones in Der Speigel.
The article has multiple mentions of women who left prostitution but then later returned. In one of them, it’s for the pay, which seems like a bargaining power issue (unless we go into the mess of counting taxes). In another, it’s more complicated as it was out of hope that a customer would fall in love with her. (Which seems unlikely to happen? Would maybe count as something similar to the vaccine situation, insight into how to achieve one’s goals.)
In the case of e.g. Alina, it sounds like the main form of dominance was dominance by proxy: “She says that she was hardly ever beaten, nor were the other women. “They said that they knew enough people in Romania who knew where our families lived. That was enough,” says Alina.”. This matches my proposal about how the dominance needs to occur at the boundary of where the law can enforce.
This sounds very suspicious to me: “There are many women from EU countries “whose situation suggests they are the victims of human trafficking, but it is difficult to provide proof that would hold up in court,” reads the BKA report. Everything depends on the women’s testimony, the authors write, but there is “little willingness to cooperate with the police and assistance agencies, especially in the case of presumed victims from Romania and Bulgaria.”″
I gave you three sources that are influential to my views. A Spiegel article, a conversation with someone who in the past was planning to run a brothel (and spoke with people who actually run brothels in Germany for that reason) and police sources.
I did not link to some activist NGO run by prudish leftists or religious people or making claims as a reason for me believing what I believe.
In general, it’s hard to know what’s actually going on when it comes to crime. If you spoke in the 1950s about the Italian mafia, you had plenty of people calling you racist against Italians and say that there’s no mafia.
Your sources are not very clear about that, and it contradicts what I’ve heard elsewhere, but yes I do admit at the boundaries of where society enforces laws, there do exist people who are forced to do things including prostitution via dominance.
If we take the issue of forced prostitution and the official numbers are estimates and by their nature estimates are not exact.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533.html would be a journalistic story about prostitution in Germany that describes what happens here with legalized prostitution.
I was once talking with someone who in the past was thinking about opening a brothel and who had some insight about how brothels are run in Germany and who said that a lot of coercion is used.
Recently, I read something from a policeman who was complaining about how the standard of proving coercion for prostitutes is too high. Proving that a prostitute who’s over 21 who left was beaten was not enough in court to convince the court that she falls under the criteria of outlawed exploitation of prostitutions.
I don’t really have any end-to-end narrative, but here’s a bunch of opinion-fragments:
There’s lots of good reason to believe that sometimes there’s dominance-based prostitution. However, all the prostitutes I’ve talked with on these subjects have emphasized that there’s a powerful alliance between prudish leftists and religious people who misrepresent what’s really going on in order to marginalize prostitution, so I’m still inclined to hold your claims to especially high standards, and I don’t really know why you (apparently) trust the organizations that prostitutes oppose so much.
Der Speigel does not describe how they sampled the individual stories they ended up with, and it seems very unlikely that they sampled them the same way that the UN number did, so it doesn’t seem like the UN number should be assumed to reflect stories like the ones in Der Speigel.
The article has multiple mentions of women who left prostitution but then later returned. In one of them, it’s for the pay, which seems like a bargaining power issue (unless we go into the mess of counting taxes). In another, it’s more complicated as it was out of hope that a customer would fall in love with her. (Which seems unlikely to happen? Would maybe count as something similar to the vaccine situation, insight into how to achieve one’s goals.)
In the case of e.g. Alina, it sounds like the main form of dominance was dominance by proxy: “She says that she was hardly ever beaten, nor were the other women. “They said that they knew enough people in Romania who knew where our families lived. That was enough,” says Alina.”. This matches my proposal about how the dominance needs to occur at the boundary of where the law can enforce.
This sounds very suspicious to me: “There are many women from EU countries “whose situation suggests they are the victims of human trafficking, but it is difficult to provide proof that would hold up in court,” reads the BKA report. Everything depends on the women’s testimony, the authors write, but there is “little willingness to cooperate with the police and assistance agencies, especially in the case of presumed victims from Romania and Bulgaria.”″
I gave you three sources that are influential to my views. A Spiegel article, a conversation with someone who in the past was planning to run a brothel (and spoke with people who actually run brothels in Germany for that reason) and police sources.
I did not link to some activist NGO run by prudish leftists or religious people or making claims as a reason for me believing what I believe.
In general, it’s hard to know what’s actually going on when it comes to crime. If you spoke in the 1950s about the Italian mafia, you had plenty of people calling you racist against Italians and say that there’s no mafia.