I asked about this atheist/simulation thing on an open thread several months ago.
What I came up with is that the most natural cluster of theism includes as part of the definition that the “simulator” is ontologically basic, and did not evolve into existence.
With that definition in mind, I am an atheist who is not willing to make the claim that our material universe came before any sort of intelligence.
What I cam up with is that the most natural cluster of theism includes as part of the definition that the “simulator” is ontologically basic, and did not evolve into existence.
Interesting. Do you believe that the big bang evolved into existence? If so, from what or why do you believe it evolved in to existence? If not, how different are you from a theist since the material universe is for all intents and purposes the machine on which the simulation we live in is run on?
I am using the world evolve very generally, in such a way that it should not be confused with biological evolution, but it is plausable to me that the universe evolved somehow without an intelligent simulator, but that is not the claim I was talking about.
It is also plausible that an intelligent simulator ran a simulation of our universe, but if so there would have to be some plausible reason for that simulator to exist. Evolving is a plausible reason. Just existing because he is god is not.
In practice this is very different from theism, in that it is probably best to continue on as though we were not a simulation, at least until we can figure out who our simulators are and need to use them to escape heat death or something.
It is also plausible that an intelligent simulator ran a simulation of our universe, but if so there would have to be some plausible reason for that simulator to exist. Evolving is a plausible reason. Just existing because he is god is not.
Really? To me it seems just as ridiculous to require an infinite regress of finite causes one after the other as it does to finally get back to a first cause. I will happily admit that NEITHER of these choices makes any kind of intuitive sense to me, I consider that likely to be a defect of human reason which had no gain to be made by coming up with a way of dealing with such abstractions in the environment in which it evolved.
In practice this is very different from theism, in that it is probably best to continue on as though we were not a simulation, at least until we can figure out who our simulators are and need to use them to escape heat death or something.
Ah I love it! Engineering reason, things that don’t change what is best for us to do are not worth sorting out. My intuition after stacking everything in that I’ve already thought about, read about, and discussed with others, is that we are not in a simulation. But unfortunately I don’t know what that means. In some straightforward sense our universe is a distributed calculator of the time-evolution of all physical laws, known and unknown, and continues at every moment that i am aware of to update itself. So whether we call it a simulation or not, it is not at all clear to me that there is a real difference mechanistically between being in a simulation and not being in a simulation.
I wonder if I am in Omega’s “human farm,” his constructed toy that shows humans living for the amusement of Omega, just as humans have “ant farms” for our amusement and edification. I might as well just behave as though I am not in Omega’s human farm, I’ll never really know if I am anyway, and this is my life either way. It would be a shame wasting it being unhappy because I suspected it was all a bad joke.
I asked about this atheist/simulation thing on an open thread several months ago.
What I came up with is that the most natural cluster of theism includes as part of the definition that the “simulator” is ontologically basic, and did not evolve into existence.
With that definition in mind, I am an atheist who is not willing to make the claim that our material universe came before any sort of intelligence.
Interesting. Do you believe that the big bang evolved into existence? If so, from what or why do you believe it evolved in to existence? If not, how different are you from a theist since the material universe is for all intents and purposes the machine on which the simulation we live in is run on?
I am using the world evolve very generally, in such a way that it should not be confused with biological evolution, but it is plausable to me that the universe evolved somehow without an intelligent simulator, but that is not the claim I was talking about.
It is also plausible that an intelligent simulator ran a simulation of our universe, but if so there would have to be some plausible reason for that simulator to exist. Evolving is a plausible reason. Just existing because he is god is not.
In practice this is very different from theism, in that it is probably best to continue on as though we were not a simulation, at least until we can figure out who our simulators are and need to use them to escape heat death or something.
Really? To me it seems just as ridiculous to require an infinite regress of finite causes one after the other as it does to finally get back to a first cause. I will happily admit that NEITHER of these choices makes any kind of intuitive sense to me, I consider that likely to be a defect of human reason which had no gain to be made by coming up with a way of dealing with such abstractions in the environment in which it evolved.
Ah I love it! Engineering reason, things that don’t change what is best for us to do are not worth sorting out. My intuition after stacking everything in that I’ve already thought about, read about, and discussed with others, is that we are not in a simulation. But unfortunately I don’t know what that means. In some straightforward sense our universe is a distributed calculator of the time-evolution of all physical laws, known and unknown, and continues at every moment that i am aware of to update itself. So whether we call it a simulation or not, it is not at all clear to me that there is a real difference mechanistically between being in a simulation and not being in a simulation.
I wonder if I am in Omega’s “human farm,” his constructed toy that shows humans living for the amusement of Omega, just as humans have “ant farms” for our amusement and edification. I might as well just behave as though I am not in Omega’s human farm, I’ll never really know if I am anyway, and this is my life either way. It would be a shame wasting it being unhappy because I suspected it was all a bad joke.