The creepiness complaints pointed out here all seem to be strong signals of low confidence: the guy is signaling with his body language and behavior that he expects to be rejected and is very concerned about this possibility. This is also signaling that he sees his status as lower than hers.
It seems to me that “creepy” is just another word for “low confidence,” and confidence is a major factor in attractiveness. I’d argue that it’s the low confidence itself- not the specific behaviors which are making her feel cornered. If an otherwise confident guy asked for her number I think it’s much less likely that she’d feel potentially trapped.
A confident (ie extremely not creepy) guy will go much further than not physically cornering a girl, but will strongly signal that he’s only slightly interested, and has other things to do. In these social interactions the other person is usually slightly on edge, concerned that they will make a faux pas which will cause the confident person to simply leave.
When a confident guy asks a girl for her number, she’s not concerned that he will annoy her and keep calling her, but that he won’t be interested enough to actually call her.
Most of the behaviors being called creepy here very much aren’t signals of low confidence, by my reading. Physically blocking exits isn’t a low-confidence move. Ditto for (deliberately) overstepping physical boundaries. Complaining about people who didn’t honor perceived social commitments could go either way depending on wording and demeanor, as could asking for a number instead of offering yours, but here it sounds like it’s being framed in high-status terms. Following someone around at a party is indicative of limited social skills, which often come with low confidence but needn’t necessarily—I’ve got a couple of Creepy Stalker Anecdotes of my own thanks to people with more social confidence than competence.
Identifying creepiness with low confidence is starting to seem like a predictable impulse in geeky spaces. There’s a few different things that could explain this, but the one I find most compelling starts with the stereotypical high-school experience of a shy and awkward male geek being labeled creep, stalker, pervert, etc. on their first crude and tentative forays into expressing sexual attraction; frustration then ensues when they’re caught between wanting to improve their skills in this arena and wanting to avoid hurting or frightening the objects of their affection in the process. I’m pretty sympathetic toward people caught in this bind! But in the adult dating scene and among those parts of the social justice universe that’re complaining about it, it seems pretty clear to me that the term’s not being used in a way that limits it to that pattern (though it does encompass it), and some of the things it’s being used to describe look a lot less pitiable.
I’d suggest playing Taboo if I thought it’d help, but unfortunately I think most of the damage has already been done.
You’re right, I was projecting my personal experience of being labled “creepy” as a geeky socially awkward teenager. My behaviors had nothing in common with those mentioned in the original post, but I did not realize this.
I agree that a taboo on the word creepy would help here, I missed that the word gets applied to drastically different situations and behaviors (on the part of the person being labeled so).
The same thing is happening here with the word “confidence”- you and I are using different definitions of it. I meant it in the context of someone who expects the interest level of a conversation to be symmetrical, and if the other person doesn’t seem interested they will notice this and instead talk to someone who shows more interest.
Shy geeky guys often enter conversations with women expecting them to be disinterested. Because they don’t expect the other person to be interested, they may keep talking to someone showing outward signs of disinterest which is a huge social mistake.
This is very different from an “overconfident” guy who so strongly expects a woman to be interested that he doesn’t check to see if she really is… however in both cases I think the woman would feel similarly trapped (because signs of disinterest are being ignored).
What’s that? Except for something in Swedish and initials of person names, the only expansion for that Google finds is “Society of Jesus”, which doesn’t quite fit the context.
Some of the behaviours that “creepy” refers to are what I would think of as “red flags.” I’ve described inappropriate physical contact as being creepy in the past.* I tend to wonder if the guy would continue doing inappropriate things were I to spend more time with him. High status men do this as well as low status men, but I tend to think of them as being dangerous rather than creepy. I’m likely to avoid spending much time with them in future too.
*I am willing to believe that this could often be due to poor social skills/not knowing how to behave with women.
The creepiness complaints pointed out here all seem to be strong signals of low confidence: the guy is signaling with his body language and behavior that he expects to be rejected and is very concerned about this possibility. This is also signaling that he sees his status as lower than hers.
It seems to me that “creepy” is just another word for “low confidence,” and confidence is a major factor in attractiveness. I’d argue that it’s the low confidence itself- not the specific behaviors which are making her feel cornered. If an otherwise confident guy asked for her number I think it’s much less likely that she’d feel potentially trapped.
A confident (ie extremely not creepy) guy will go much further than not physically cornering a girl, but will strongly signal that he’s only slightly interested, and has other things to do. In these social interactions the other person is usually slightly on edge, concerned that they will make a faux pas which will cause the confident person to simply leave.
When a confident guy asks a girl for her number, she’s not concerned that he will annoy her and keep calling her, but that he won’t be interested enough to actually call her.
Most of the behaviors being called creepy here very much aren’t signals of low confidence, by my reading. Physically blocking exits isn’t a low-confidence move. Ditto for (deliberately) overstepping physical boundaries. Complaining about people who didn’t honor perceived social commitments could go either way depending on wording and demeanor, as could asking for a number instead of offering yours, but here it sounds like it’s being framed in high-status terms. Following someone around at a party is indicative of limited social skills, which often come with low confidence but needn’t necessarily—I’ve got a couple of Creepy Stalker Anecdotes of my own thanks to people with more social confidence than competence.
Identifying creepiness with low confidence is starting to seem like a predictable impulse in geeky spaces. There’s a few different things that could explain this, but the one I find most compelling starts with the stereotypical high-school experience of a shy and awkward male geek being labeled creep, stalker, pervert, etc. on their first crude and tentative forays into expressing sexual attraction; frustration then ensues when they’re caught between wanting to improve their skills in this arena and wanting to avoid hurting or frightening the objects of their affection in the process. I’m pretty sympathetic toward people caught in this bind! But in the adult dating scene and among those parts of the social justice universe that’re complaining about it, it seems pretty clear to me that the term’s not being used in a way that limits it to that pattern (though it does encompass it), and some of the things it’s being used to describe look a lot less pitiable.
I’d suggest playing Taboo if I thought it’d help, but unfortunately I think most of the damage has already been done.
You’re right, I was projecting my personal experience of being labled “creepy” as a geeky socially awkward teenager. My behaviors had nothing in common with those mentioned in the original post, but I did not realize this.
I agree that a taboo on the word creepy would help here, I missed that the word gets applied to drastically different situations and behaviors (on the part of the person being labeled so).
The same thing is happening here with the word “confidence”- you and I are using different definitions of it. I meant it in the context of someone who expects the interest level of a conversation to be symmetrical, and if the other person doesn’t seem interested they will notice this and instead talk to someone who shows more interest.
Shy geeky guys often enter conversations with women expecting them to be disinterested. Because they don’t expect the other person to be interested, they may keep talking to someone showing outward signs of disinterest which is a huge social mistake.
This is very different from an “overconfident” guy who so strongly expects a woman to be interested that he doesn’t check to see if she really is… however in both cases I think the woman would feel similarly trapped (because signs of disinterest are being ignored).
What’s that? Except for something in Swedish and initials of person names, the only expansion for that Google finds is “Society of Jesus”, which doesn’t quite fit the context.
Social justice, sorry. I’ll go back and expand that; clearly I’ve been reading Tumblr too much.
Some of the behaviours that “creepy” refers to are what I would think of as “red flags.” I’ve described inappropriate physical contact as being creepy in the past.* I tend to wonder if the guy would continue doing inappropriate things were I to spend more time with him. High status men do this as well as low status men, but I tend to think of them as being dangerous rather than creepy. I’m likely to avoid spending much time with them in future too.
*I am willing to believe that this could often be due to poor social skills/not knowing how to behave with women.