If you take a moment to consider whether you have any evidence that you’re objectively doing any worse than anyone else, then hate yourself and think you’re worthless.
You are right that’s not what Yvain said. If statements really are uni-directional ;-)
However, if you are interested a realistic assessment, you should consider how you are objectively doing even if you don’t hate yourself. If you are interested in your own wellbeing, you shouldn’t hate yourself even if you are doing worse.
It’s true, if you hate yourself it might be more likely that you don’t assess yourself objectively, so the advise has some merit, but I think it can strengthen the idea that if you are doing worse than everyone else, you should hate yourself (even if it is not intended or logically implied).
I agree with you that care needs to be taken that exercises intended to increase cheer have a low risk of decreasing cheer, but my experience with depressed people is that experimenting until you find something that works for them is fairly low-cost. They’re already trapped in a spiral of negative thoughts; what matters is the difference between the old thought and the new thought. If the old thought was −5 and the new thought is −6, not much has changed; but if the new thought is a 2, then things are looking up.
The obvious solution to any mood problem is “stop it,” and the obvious approach to self-loathing is “don’t do it.” Pointing those things out is not particularly helpful. (That is how I interpret your criticism of Yvain’s statement; the implicit proposal is “instead of giving them a non-rigorous reason to not hate themselves, don’t give a reason.”)
instead of giving them a non-rigorous reason to not hate themselves, don’t give a reason
I think there are more options than just a more realistic assessment of how well someone is doing at something. For example if someone thinks he/she is fat, one could point out that there is more to attractiveness than body weight or that there is more to a person than physical attractiveness. If the person is not really fat, pointing that out would be helpful, too, but while doing so the believe that body weight is important shouldn’t be reinforced.
I agree that just saying “stop it” is hardly helpful and it was not my intention claim that it is.
Let’s test that:
You are right that’s not what Yvain said. If statements really are uni-directional ;-)
However, if you are interested a realistic assessment, you should consider how you are objectively doing even if you don’t hate yourself. If you are interested in your own wellbeing, you shouldn’t hate yourself even if you are doing worse.
It’s true, if you hate yourself it might be more likely that you don’t assess yourself objectively, so the advise has some merit, but I think it can strengthen the idea that if you are doing worse than everyone else, you should hate yourself (even if it is not intended or logically implied).
I agree with you that care needs to be taken that exercises intended to increase cheer have a low risk of decreasing cheer, but my experience with depressed people is that experimenting until you find something that works for them is fairly low-cost. They’re already trapped in a spiral of negative thoughts; what matters is the difference between the old thought and the new thought. If the old thought was −5 and the new thought is −6, not much has changed; but if the new thought is a 2, then things are looking up.
The obvious solution to any mood problem is “stop it,” and the obvious approach to self-loathing is “don’t do it.” Pointing those things out is not particularly helpful. (That is how I interpret your criticism of Yvain’s statement; the implicit proposal is “instead of giving them a non-rigorous reason to not hate themselves, don’t give a reason.”)
I think there are more options than just a more realistic assessment of how well someone is doing at something. For example if someone thinks he/she is fat, one could point out that there is more to attractiveness than body weight or that there is more to a person than physical attractiveness. If the person is not really fat, pointing that out would be helpful, too, but while doing so the believe that body weight is important shouldn’t be reinforced.
I agree that just saying “stop it” is hardly helpful and it was not my intention claim that it is.