I’m somewhat confused, it seems you are suggesting that a person who speaks a simplified version of English would not have language, but that is not the case. ~1,000 words is plenty to be able to express any idea (including high-order concepts—example), even if in a way that seems roundabout to us (because our conventions are built around an axiom of having a rich vocabulary). Basic English uses only 850 words, and the Simple English Wikipedia encourages using that list or similar there.
I am not disputing that some words can be explained with other words, or even with a relatively small subset of words. A dictionary of Simple English definitions of collegiate English vocabulary would be doable.
I’m disputing the title of the post. We have a real-world example of a language that lacked an important concept—theory of mind—and without that concept from language, the people were unable to even think it. This was explained better in the episode than my comment (there is a transcript too).
Newspeak might not have its intended effect on the first generation, since the people using it are still capable of thinking in their old language. (Though perhaps this ability could atrophy over time.) But the second generation who only ever learned Newspeak might lack access to certain important higher-order concepts altogether.
Would you mind clarifying here whether you mean by »Newspeak«: A) Newspeak exactly as presented in 1984 or B) Simplified English (which Newspeak is a metaphor for, following both Orwell and me)?
If A), the title of this post was not meant to literally assert that 1984.Newspeak does not make someone stupid, and I clearly state in the post that Newspeak as implemented by Oceania is problematic; the title of the post should be understood as “Simplified English will not make you stupid” (a claim that Orwell would incorrectly disagree with me about). If B), I would then dispute the final paragraph of this comment.
I’m somewhat confused, it seems you are suggesting that a person who speaks a simplified version of English would not have language, but that is not the case. ~1,000 words is plenty to be able to express any idea (including high-order concepts—example), even if in a way that seems roundabout to us (because our conventions are built around an axiom of having a rich vocabulary). Basic English uses only 850 words, and the Simple English Wikipedia encourages using that list or similar there.
I am not disputing that some words can be explained with other words, or even with a relatively small subset of words. A dictionary of Simple English definitions of collegiate English vocabulary would be doable.
I’m disputing the title of the post. We have a real-world example of a language that lacked an important concept—theory of mind—and without that concept from language, the people were unable to even think it. This was explained better in the episode than my comment (there is a transcript too).
Newspeak might not have its intended effect on the first generation, since the people using it are still capable of thinking in their old language. (Though perhaps this ability could atrophy over time.) But the second generation who only ever learned Newspeak might lack access to certain important higher-order concepts altogether.
Would you mind clarifying here whether you mean by »Newspeak«: A) Newspeak exactly as presented in 1984 or B) Simplified English (which Newspeak is a metaphor for, following both Orwell and me)?
If A), the title of this post was not meant to literally assert that 1984.Newspeak does not make someone stupid, and I clearly state in the post that Newspeak as implemented by Oceania is problematic; the title of the post should be understood as “Simplified English will not make you stupid” (a claim that Orwell would incorrectly disagree with me about). If B), I would then dispute the final paragraph of this comment.