You might be interested in this paper, it supports the idea of a constant information processing rate in text. “Different languages, similar coding efficiency: Comparable information rates across the human communicative niche”, Coupe, Mi Oh, Dediu, Pellegrino.. 2019, Science Advances.
I would agree that language would likely adapt to newspeak by simply using other compound words to describe the same thing. Within a generation or two these would then just become the new word. Presumably the Orwellian government would have to continually ban these new words. Perhaps with enough pressure over enough years the ideas themselves would be forgotten, which is perhaps Orwell’s point.
I think the claim that sophisticated word use is caused by intelligence signalling requires more evidence. It is I’m sure one aspect of the behaviour. But a wider vocabulary is also beneficial in terms of being able to more clearly and efficiently disambiguate and communicate ideas. This could be especially true I think when communicating across contexts—having context specific language may help prevent misunderstandings that would arise with a more limited vocabulary. It would be interesting to try and model that with ideas from information theory.
I would agree that language would likely adapt to newspeak by simply using other compound words to describe the same thing.
If language would eliminate a term like “fiance” do you really think that people would just use a compound to replace the term? I would expect that they will default to a more general term like “boyfriend”/”girlfriend”.
A Hawaian might be able to say Makuakane as fast as an English speaker says father but Makuakane doesn’t distinguish between father/uncle and thus the communicated information is going to be less.
Good point. I think it would depend on how useful the word is in describing the world. If your culture has very different norms between “boyfriend/girlfriend” and fiancé then a replacement for fiancé would likely appear.
I suppose that on one extreme you would have words that are fundamental to human life or psychology e.g. water, body, food, cold. These I’m sure would reappear if banned. Then on the other extreme you have words associated with somewhat arbitrary cultural behaviour e.g. thanksgiving, tinsel, Twitter, hatchback. These words may not come back if the thing they are describing is also banned.
Uncle/father is an interesting one. Those different meanings could be described with compound words. Father could be “direct makuakane” and uncle “brother makuakane”, or something like that. We already use compound words in family relations in English like “grandfather” whereas Spanish it is “abuelo”.
While you could make up compounds I think there’s a reason why those anthropolgists lists the hawaian has having the same kinship terms for both.
Political terms like vote, representation, legitimatization and election might also not easily come back when a 1984 style government bans them along with the activities that they are about.
You might be interested in this paper, it supports the idea of a constant information processing rate in text. “Different languages, similar coding efficiency: Comparable information rates across the human communicative niche”, Coupe, Mi Oh, Dediu, Pellegrino.. 2019, Science Advances.
I would agree that language would likely adapt to newspeak by simply using other compound words to describe the same thing. Within a generation or two these would then just become the new word. Presumably the Orwellian government would have to continually ban these new words. Perhaps with enough pressure over enough years the ideas themselves would be forgotten, which is perhaps Orwell’s point.
I think the claim that sophisticated word use is caused by intelligence signalling requires more evidence. It is I’m sure one aspect of the behaviour. But a wider vocabulary is also beneficial in terms of being able to more clearly and efficiently disambiguate and communicate ideas. This could be especially true I think when communicating across contexts—having context specific language may help prevent misunderstandings that would arise with a more limited vocabulary. It would be interesting to try and model that with ideas from information theory.
If language would eliminate a term like “fiance” do you really think that people would just use a compound to replace the term? I would expect that they will default to a more general term like “boyfriend”/”girlfriend”.
A Hawaian might be able to say Makuakane as fast as an English speaker says father but Makuakane doesn’t distinguish between father/uncle and thus the communicated information is going to be less.
Good point. I think it would depend on how useful the word is in describing the world. If your culture has very different norms between “boyfriend/girlfriend” and fiancé then a replacement for fiancé would likely appear.
I suppose that on one extreme you would have words that are fundamental to human life or psychology e.g. water, body, food, cold. These I’m sure would reappear if banned. Then on the other extreme you have words associated with somewhat arbitrary cultural behaviour e.g. thanksgiving, tinsel, Twitter, hatchback. These words may not come back if the thing they are describing is also banned.
Uncle/father is an interesting one. Those different meanings could be described with compound words. Father could be “direct makuakane” and uncle “brother makuakane”, or something like that. We already use compound words in family relations in English like “grandfather” whereas Spanish it is “abuelo”.
While you could make up compounds I think there’s a reason why those anthropolgists lists the hawaian has having the same kinship terms for both.
Political terms like vote, representation, legitimatization and election might also not easily come back when a 1984 style government bans them along with the activities that they are about.