It also possible that the friend owns his place and is not paying rent for it.
At the moment I’m living in a one room 25 m^2 meter flat and I don’t have good space to host people. A while ago I was living in an arrangement where I had enough space to comfortable host guests but a renting contract didn’t really allow for renting out a room for money.
Having cool friends stay over wasn’t costing me anything.
There are plenty of rich people with who own flats in multiple cities and don’t have any problem with having a trustworthy stay some time in one of their flats while they aren’t using the flat.
People go on vacation and profit from someone being in the flat who feeds the cat and waters plants while they are away.
There are a bunch of home maintenance tasks where you care hire someone to do it but you can also just do it yourself or get help from friends to do it. Thinking of money as the only way to get things done is limiting.
Hmm, are there parts of the world where this is commonly an option? In Finland, “owning an apartment” generally means “owning a share of a housing cooperative”, and shareholders are required to pay their share of the cost of maintaining the building.
I guess that it would be possible for someone to avoid paying anything if they contributed their work instead, and managed to persuade the rest of the co-op to permit it, but I’ve never heard of anyone doing that.
In Finland, “owning an apartment” generally means “owning a share of a housing cooperative”, and shareholders are required to pay their share of the cost of maintaining the building.
It might come to a surprise but there are people who live in standalone buildings that don’t contain multiple apartments.
A task like watering plants is home maintenance. Clearing someone’s computer from viruses is also more or less home maintenance.
Building an IKEA cupboard is home maintenance.
I would guess most people on Lesswrong have fixed the computer of a friend without getting payed for it. We engage in a lot of activities that produce value for someone but which aren’t payed for with money.
I once read in a role playing handbook that while bribing a diplomat with money might produce heavy resistance, giving the diplomat a good contact that’s useful for the diplomat might make him owe you a valuable favor.
If you are a nerd who’s too shy to approach woman and you go to a bar with a friend who has very high social skills and that friend does the opening of conversations and tells a girl what a great guy you are and you end up in a relationship with the girl, that’s a favor that very valuable but not easy to buy with money.
I’m no communist who opposes money in principle, but want to stress the point that money is not the only way to exchange value. Simply being aware of your environment and creating value for other people can often create relationships where they are also happy to do something for you but no money exchanges hands.
It might come to a surprise but there are people who live in standalone buildings that don’t contain multiple apartments.
No need to get snarky. I’m obviously aware of that, but I was commenting in the context of your earlier comment, which talked specifically about “flats”. So a more exact phrasing of my comment would have been “Are there parts of the world where this is commonly an option [for flat-owners]”.
And I never made the claim that money is the only way to exchange value. I just got curious about how flat-ownership works in other countries, that’s all.
If you have good social skills and a reputation as someone who’s company is highly valuable you can get shelter by staying at friends places.
Do you advocate doing this? Or are you just making the point that it’s possible?
a reputation as someone who’s company is highly valuable
If you’re not doing any of the things that are traditionally held to be worthwhile (working, teaching, studying, creating art, etc.)… then you are legitimately unlikely to be an interesting person, someone whose company is valuable.
Do you advocate doing this? Or are you just making the point that it’s possible?
I know people who more or less do this. Do I advocate it as the solution for everyone or even for myself? No. On the other hand it’s a valid choice for some people.
More importantly it’s limiting to think of money as the only way to acquire stuff.
I personally can’t work as effectively on a notebook as I can when I work at my own setup with a monitor, a separate keyboard and a mouse. I have no problem being 12 hours per day in front of my computer setup but if I spent 2 hours in front of a notebook my back gets tense.
If you’re not doing any of the things that are traditionally held to be worthwhile (working, teaching, studying, creating art, etc.)… then you are legitimately unlikely to be an interesting person, someone whose company is valuable.
Looking for a way to get payed can constrain the work that you are doing. Einstein did most of his important work in 1905 in his free time and not at his formal job as a patent clerk.
Julian Assange would be someone who did very important work at Wikileaks which didn’t pay and who never had a formal residence but just went from sleeping at one person place to sleeping at the place of the next.
As far as education goes Steve Jobs is a good example. After he dropped out of school he crashed at friends places to have shelter and he went to those lectures that interested him.
In my experience autodidacts are often more interesting people than people who are formally educated.
Are you serious with this [eating pigeons]?
Tim Ferriss wrote a guide on how to catch pigeons for eating. I think it’s somewhere in the 4 hour Chef. I see no real reason against the practice. Being the kind of person who can cook a good self caught pigeon meal also helps with being an interesting person.
What city do you live in? If I’m ever around, we are throwing the biggest and best Less Wrong Pigeon Barbeque party in the World’s history. We are doing this.
(We can totally donate some 30 dollars to vegan outreach on the side, or [edit< sarcasm sign] ]spread the vegetarian allergenic mexican beetles in some urban area later to make up for the poor birds)
What city do you live in? If I’m ever around, we are throwing the biggest and best Less Wrong Pigeon Barbeque party in the World’s history. We are doing this.
Berlin. Hosting a Pigeon Barbeque party sounds like a great idea.
I think as far as the legalities go you have to have a hunting permit to do it, but I have a survivalist friend who has it and probably if he oversees it.
spread the vegetarian allergenic mexican beetles
That phrase doesn’t show up on google, what do you mean with it?
The post you link does, but your in this thread doesn’t.
Do to information hazards and schelling fences you just don’t joke about commiting bioterrorism on a public forum where you don’t know whether someone is reading who won’t get the joke.
Especially when shut up and calculate utilitarians are around.
Unemployment/disability benefits can help pay for these, provided one isn’t trying to live alone in a high-end neighborhood, but a social safety net and a lack of debt are pretty much requirements.
Money can be used to get them and thats the most common way in the developed world these days. But money is a system of tokens that people use to keep track of transactions. Other tokens can be used. Like trust or social status. Or one could bypass a token economy all together.
Do you consider food, shelter, and clothing to be optional? You know those things cost money, right?
Money is a resource to get those things but not the only one.
If you have good social skills and a reputation as someone who’s company is highly valuable you can get shelter by staying at friends places.
A modern city provides plenty of pigeons to eat. Dumpster diving is another way used by many people to get food.
Clothing still costs a bit of money but a lot less if you buy second hand stuff.
Yes, you can. But guess what, someone is still paying for it, even if it is your “friend”.
It also possible that the friend owns his place and is not paying rent for it.
At the moment I’m living in a one room 25 m^2 meter flat and I don’t have good space to host people. A while ago I was living in an arrangement where I had enough space to comfortable host guests but a renting contract didn’t really allow for renting out a room for money.
Having cool friends stay over wasn’t costing me anything.
There are plenty of rich people with who own flats in multiple cities and don’t have any problem with having a trustworthy stay some time in one of their flats while they aren’t using the flat.
People go on vacation and profit from someone being in the flat who feeds the cat and waters plants while they are away.
Even if they own place, someone still needs to pay for the maintenance, electricity, etc.
There are a bunch of home maintenance tasks where you care hire someone to do it but you can also just do it yourself or get help from friends to do it. Thinking of money as the only way to get things done is limiting.
Hmm, are there parts of the world where this is commonly an option? In Finland, “owning an apartment” generally means “owning a share of a housing cooperative”, and shareholders are required to pay their share of the cost of maintaining the building.
I guess that it would be possible for someone to avoid paying anything if they contributed their work instead, and managed to persuade the rest of the co-op to permit it, but I’ve never heard of anyone doing that.
It might come to a surprise but there are people who live in standalone buildings that don’t contain multiple apartments.
A task like watering plants is home maintenance. Clearing someone’s computer from viruses is also more or less home maintenance. Building an IKEA cupboard is home maintenance.
I would guess most people on Lesswrong have fixed the computer of a friend without getting payed for it. We engage in a lot of activities that produce value for someone but which aren’t payed for with money.
I once read in a role playing handbook that while bribing a diplomat with money might produce heavy resistance, giving the diplomat a good contact that’s useful for the diplomat might make him owe you a valuable favor.
If you are a nerd who’s too shy to approach woman and you go to a bar with a friend who has very high social skills and that friend does the opening of conversations and tells a girl what a great guy you are and you end up in a relationship with the girl, that’s a favor that very valuable but not easy to buy with money.
I’m no communist who opposes money in principle, but want to stress the point that money is not the only way to exchange value. Simply being aware of your environment and creating value for other people can often create relationships where they are also happy to do something for you but no money exchanges hands.
No need to get snarky. I’m obviously aware of that, but I was commenting in the context of your earlier comment, which talked specifically about “flats”. So a more exact phrasing of my comment would have been “Are there parts of the world where this is commonly an option [for flat-owners]”.
And I never made the claim that money is the only way to exchange value. I just got curious about how flat-ownership works in other countries, that’s all.
Do you advocate doing this? Or are you just making the point that it’s possible?
If you’re not doing any of the things that are traditionally held to be worthwhile (working, teaching, studying, creating art, etc.)… then you are legitimately unlikely to be an interesting person, someone whose company is valuable.
Are you serious with this?
I know people who more or less do this. Do I advocate it as the solution for everyone or even for myself? No. On the other hand it’s a valid choice for some people.
More importantly it’s limiting to think of money as the only way to acquire stuff.
I personally can’t work as effectively on a notebook as I can when I work at my own setup with a monitor, a separate keyboard and a mouse. I have no problem being 12 hours per day in front of my computer setup but if I spent 2 hours in front of a notebook my back gets tense.
Looking for a way to get payed can constrain the work that you are doing. Einstein did most of his important work in 1905 in his free time and not at his formal job as a patent clerk.
Julian Assange would be someone who did very important work at Wikileaks which didn’t pay and who never had a formal residence but just went from sleeping at one person place to sleeping at the place of the next.
As far as education goes Steve Jobs is a good example. After he dropped out of school he crashed at friends places to have shelter and he went to those lectures that interested him.
In my experience autodidacts are often more interesting people than people who are formally educated.
Tim Ferriss wrote a guide on how to catch pigeons for eating. I think it’s somewhere in the 4 hour Chef. I see no real reason against the practice. Being the kind of person who can cook a good self caught pigeon meal also helps with being an interesting person.
What city do you live in? If I’m ever around, we are throwing the biggest and best Less Wrong Pigeon Barbeque party in the World’s history. We are doing this.
(We can totally donate some 30 dollars to vegan outreach on the side, or [edit< sarcasm sign] ]spread the vegetarian allergenic mexican beetles in some urban area later to make up for the poor birds)
Berlin. Hosting a Pigeon Barbeque party sounds like a great idea.
I think as far as the legalities go you have to have a hunting permit to do it, but I have a survivalist friend who has it and probably if he oversees it.
That phrase doesn’t show up on google, what do you mean with it?
http://lesswrong.com/lw/h7m/pay_other_species_to_pandemize_vegetarianism_for/
Okay. On that point I have to say bioterrorism isn’t cool.
Last week I read a bit about Osho and my first reaction would be: “What are those people thinking?” But I do understand the kind of thinking that lead to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajneeshee_bioterror_attack .
It’s wrong, don’t do it, it isn’t cool.
Yes, that is why my post begins with the sarcasm sign. I don’t really want people to spread those insects around either.
The post you link does, but your in this thread doesn’t.
Do to information hazards and schelling fences you just don’t joke about commiting bioterrorism on a public forum where you don’t know whether someone is reading who won’t get the joke.
Especially when shut up and calculate utilitarians are around.
Point well taken.
Unemployment/disability benefits can help pay for these, provided one isn’t trying to live alone in a high-end neighborhood, but a social safety net and a lack of debt are pretty much requirements.
Money can be used to get them and thats the most common way in the developed world these days. But money is a system of tokens that people use to keep track of transactions. Other tokens can be used. Like trust or social status. Or one could bypass a token economy all together.