In practice, it seems to me that a lot of virtue ethicists value happiness and goodness a lot. But in theory, there’s nothing about being a virtue ethicist that says anything about what the virtues themselves are.
But I’m realizing that my incredibly literal way of thinking about this may not be that useful and that the things you’re paying attention to may be more useful. But at the same time, being literal and precise is often really important. I think that in this case both we could do both, and as a team we have :)
Yeah, most people are like that, even lots of people with high IQ’s and phd’s.
Exactly. Another possibly good way to put it. People who are smart in the traditional way (high IQ, PhD...) have their smartness limited very much to certain domains. Ie. there might be a brilliant mathematician who has proved incredibly difficult theorems, but just doesn’t have the strength to admit that certain basic things are true. I see a lot of traditionally smart people act very stupidly in certain domains. To me, I judge people at their worst when it comes to “not stupidness”, which is why I have perhaps extreme views. Idk, it makes sense to me. There’s something to be said for the ability to not stoop to a really low level. Maybe that’s a good way to put it—I judge people based on the lowness they’re capable of stooping to. (Man, I’m loosing track of how many important things I’ve come across in talking to you.)
And similarly with morality—I very much judge people by how they act when it’s difficult to be nice. I hate when people meet someone new and conclude that they’re “so nice” just because they acted socially appropriate by making small talk and being polite. Try seeing how that person acts when they’re frustrated and are protected by the anonymity of being in a car. The difference between people at their best and their worst is huge. This clip explains exactly what I mean better than I could. (I love some of the IMO great comedians like Louis CK, Larry David and Seinfeld. I think they make a handful of legitimately insightful points about society, and they articulate and explain things in ways that make so much sense. In an intellectual sense, I understand how difficult it is to communicate things in such an intuitive way. Every little subtlety is important, and you really have to break things down to their essence. So I’m impressed by a lot of comedians in an intellectual sense, and I don’t know many others who think like that.).
And I take pride in never/very rarely stooping to these low levels. I love basketball and play pick up a lot and it’s amazing how horrible people are and how low they stoop. Cheating, bullying, fighting, selfishness, pathetic and embarrassing ego dances etc. I never cheat, ever (and needless to say I would never do any of the other pathetic stuff). And people know this and never argue with me (well, not everyone).
not so much writing itself, I have a hard time choosing the right words… but I love sharing ideas
Oh. I love trying to find the right words. Well, sometimes it could be difficult, but I find it to be a “good difficult”. One of my favorite things to do, and one of the two or three things I think I’m most skilled at, is breaking things down to their essence. And that’s often what I think choosing the right words is about. (Although these comments aren’t exactly works of art :) )
maybe I will soon blog about how rationality can improve happiness
To the extent that your goal here is to influence people, I think it’s worth being strategic about. I could offer some thoughts if you’d like. For example, that blogger site you’re using doesn’t seem to get much audience—a site like https://medium.com/ might allow you to reach more people (and has a much nicer UI).
This is a really small point though, and there are a lot of other things to consider if you want to influence people. http://www.2uo.de/influence/ is a great book on how to influence people. It’s one of the Dark Arts of rationality. If you’re interested, I’d recommend putting it on your reading list. If you’re a little interested, I’d just recommend taking 5-10 minutes to read that post. If you’re not very interested, which something tells me is somewhat likely to be true, just forget it :)
One reason why I like writing is so I could refer people to my writing instead of having to explain it 100 times. Not that I ever mind explaining things, but at the same time it is convenient to just link to an article.
But a lot of people “write for themselves”. Ie. they like to get their ideas down in words or whatever, but they make it available in case people want to read it.
I am enjoying this conversation immensely, partly because I’ve never talked to someone else who was so strategic, analytic, and open-minded before, and knowledgeable, and I really appreciate those qualities.
I try :)
even the occasional people who think I’m awesome
Are you trying to be modest? I can’t imagine anyone not thinking that you’re awesome.
don’t appreciate me for quite the same reason I’ve always “appreciated” myself, which I always thought was “because I’m pretty good at thinking” which I can now call “rationality” :)
Yea, I feel the same way, although it doesn’t bother me. It takes a rational person to appreciate another rational person (“real recognize real”), and I don’t have very high expectations of normal people.
In practice, it seems to me that a lot of virtue ethicists value happiness and goodness a lot. But in theory, there’s nothing about being a virtue ethicist that says anything about what the virtues themselves are.
But I’m realizing that my incredibly literal way of thinking about this may not be that useful and that the things you’re paying attention to may be more useful. But at the same time, being literal and precise is often really important. I think that in this case both we could do both, and as a team we have :)
Exactly. Another possibly good way to put it. People who are smart in the traditional way (high IQ, PhD...) have their smartness limited very much to certain domains. Ie. there might be a brilliant mathematician who has proved incredibly difficult theorems, but just doesn’t have the strength to admit that certain basic things are true. I see a lot of traditionally smart people act very stupidly in certain domains. To me, I judge people at their worst when it comes to “not stupidness”, which is why I have perhaps extreme views. Idk, it makes sense to me. There’s something to be said for the ability to not stoop to a really low level. Maybe that’s a good way to put it—I judge people based on the lowness they’re capable of stooping to. (Man, I’m loosing track of how many important things I’ve come across in talking to you.)
And similarly with morality—I very much judge people by how they act when it’s difficult to be nice. I hate when people meet someone new and conclude that they’re “so nice” just because they acted socially appropriate by making small talk and being polite. Try seeing how that person acts when they’re frustrated and are protected by the anonymity of being in a car. The difference between people at their best and their worst is huge. This clip explains exactly what I mean better than I could. (I love some of the IMO great comedians like Louis CK, Larry David and Seinfeld. I think they make a handful of legitimately insightful points about society, and they articulate and explain things in ways that make so much sense. In an intellectual sense, I understand how difficult it is to communicate things in such an intuitive way. Every little subtlety is important, and you really have to break things down to their essence. So I’m impressed by a lot of comedians in an intellectual sense, and I don’t know many others who think like that.).
And I take pride in never/very rarely stooping to these low levels. I love basketball and play pick up a lot and it’s amazing how horrible people are and how low they stoop. Cheating, bullying, fighting, selfishness, pathetic and embarrassing ego dances etc. I never cheat, ever (and needless to say I would never do any of the other pathetic stuff). And people know this and never argue with me (well, not everyone).
Oh. I love trying to find the right words. Well, sometimes it could be difficult, but I find it to be a “good difficult”. One of my favorite things to do, and one of the two or three things I think I’m most skilled at, is breaking things down to their essence. And that’s often what I think choosing the right words is about. (Although these comments aren’t exactly works of art :) )
To the extent that your goal here is to influence people, I think it’s worth being strategic about. I could offer some thoughts if you’d like. For example, that blogger site you’re using doesn’t seem to get much audience—a site like https://medium.com/ might allow you to reach more people (and has a much nicer UI).
This is a really small point though, and there are a lot of other things to consider if you want to influence people. http://www.2uo.de/influence/ is a great book on how to influence people. It’s one of the Dark Arts of rationality. If you’re interested, I’d recommend putting it on your reading list. If you’re a little interested, I’d just recommend taking 5-10 minutes to read that post. If you’re not very interested, which something tells me is somewhat likely to be true, just forget it :)
One reason why I like writing is so I could refer people to my writing instead of having to explain it 100 times. Not that I ever mind explaining things, but at the same time it is convenient to just link to an article.
But a lot of people “write for themselves”. Ie. they like to get their ideas down in words or whatever, but they make it available in case people want to read it.
I try :)
Are you trying to be modest? I can’t imagine anyone not thinking that you’re awesome.
Yea, I feel the same way, although it doesn’t bother me. It takes a rational person to appreciate another rational person (“real recognize real”), and I don’t have very high expectations of normal people.