They’re defined more by being influential, and reading them is more about gaining a better understanding of the context of literature: its history and the mechanics of its evolution.
I’m not disagreeing. The main point is that the literature canon is the most influential starting point for discussing literature that’s considered really very good. Not that the books themselves would necessarily be the best ever.
And for the purposes of the original discussion, it’s not even necessary to find the absolutely best literature ever, only examples of literature that can be considered significantly more skillfully put together than top of the line fanfiction. The Western canon probably manages this.
People like Shakespeare are to English literature what people like Aristotle are to Western philosophy: not the best by some set of quasi-objective standards, nor the most gratifying to taste, but the headwaters from which later traditions flow.
Is this actually the case? Philosophers seem to consider Aristotle really influential and quite outdated, while English lit. people who aren’t decrying him as a dead white male patriarchal oppressor still seem to think Shakespeare was probably the greatest thing ever.
Is this actually the case? Philosophers seem to consider Aristotle really influential and quite outdated, while English lit. people who aren’t decrying him as a dead white male patriarchal oppressor still seem to think Shakespeare was probably the greatest thing ever.
If you asked some modern philosophers to make a list of the greatest philosophers of all time, and then asked English lit professors to make a list of the greatest English writers of all time, the relative rankings of Aristotle and Shakespeare would likely be close to each other (though probably not identical). And I think the reason for this is that they’re ranking—and teaching, and recommending—mainly along lines of influence rather than technical skill or correctness or enjoyment. The precise terms each are described in might be different, but in terms of their place in their fields I think the analogy’s pretty close.
I do think that Shakespeare by most standards would look better than Aristotle relative to his counterparts today: literature was a more mature field in his time than philosophy was in Aristotle’s. But I don’t think he was the most technically skilled writer in English, not by a long shot, and I suspect most literary scholars (Shakespeare scholars excepted) would agree with me.
I’m not disagreeing. The main point is that the literature canon is the most influential starting point for discussing literature that’s considered really very good. Not that the books themselves would necessarily be the best ever.
And for the purposes of the original discussion, it’s not even necessary to find the absolutely best literature ever, only examples of literature that can be considered significantly more skillfully put together than top of the line fanfiction. The Western canon probably manages this.
Is this actually the case? Philosophers seem to consider Aristotle really influential and quite outdated, while English lit. people who aren’t decrying him as a dead white male patriarchal oppressor still seem to think Shakespeare was probably the greatest thing ever.
If you asked some modern philosophers to make a list of the greatest philosophers of all time, and then asked English lit professors to make a list of the greatest English writers of all time, the relative rankings of Aristotle and Shakespeare would likely be close to each other (though probably not identical). And I think the reason for this is that they’re ranking—and teaching, and recommending—mainly along lines of influence rather than technical skill or correctness or enjoyment. The precise terms each are described in might be different, but in terms of their place in their fields I think the analogy’s pretty close.
I do think that Shakespeare by most standards would look better than Aristotle relative to his counterparts today: literature was a more mature field in his time than philosophy was in Aristotle’s. But I don’t think he was the most technically skilled writer in English, not by a long shot, and I suspect most literary scholars (Shakespeare scholars excepted) would agree with me.