Let’s look at the dialogue from B’s perspective. My reading of it is that he does have a strong feeling, or opinion, about the fish. They smell bad, they probably aren’t fresh, they may be more likely to make him sick if he eats them. Now, what’s A done here?
1 He’s changed the subject. They were discussing A’s fish; now they’re discussing B’s feelings.
2 He’s made a status grab. If A says “let’s talk about your feelings” and B complies, that puts A in the position of therapist or teacher or something of the sort.
3 He’s implied B is wrong about the fish. Conversational implicatures: If B says “your fish are bad” and A says “so, tell me about your feelings about my fish”, A is presupposing that B’s feelings aren’t simply a consequence of the badness of the fish.
4 He’s implied B is being unreasonable. Conversational implicatures again.
5 He’s done these things implicitly which means that if B objects and tries to get back onto the subject of the fish, or to defend himself from the charge of unreasonableness, he is liable to look like he’s being petty.
It is not surprising if B doesn’t like this.
Now, to be clear, you’re not wrong about map and territory. Sometimes B will react negatively to A’s fish, and the reason really will lie in B’s quirks rather than any deficiency in the fish. This is one reason why it may well be a good idea for B to take an NVC-ish approach and begin by talking about his reaction to the fish rather than about the Fish-In-Themselves. (Well … probably not, actually, in this example. But in the situations it’s a metaphor for.) And if B charges in accusing A of selling rotten fish, then A is likely to get offended and defensive; that’s another reason why B may choose to do the NVC thing.
But it’s a different matter if A tries to oblige B to do that, especially if B has already made an object-level criticism of the Fish-In-Themselves. And, in a world where fishmongers do sometimes sell bad fish, it’s probably not a good idea to have norms that say B should never begin by criticizing the fish.
Returning from the metaphor to the reality of this thread for a moment: of course Valentine didn’t say anything like “PDV, you are obliged to respond by talking about your feelings”. Quite the reverse: he said “My preference would be...”. That’s surely better than trying to impose a literal obligation; but it’s easy enough (and not obviously wrong) to read Valentine’s words as trying to impose a social obligation. “Valentine’s made this reasonable request, and asked politely, and explained why; the least you can do is to comply”.
One more remark: sometimes B will react negatively, the reason will lie in B’s quirks, and B will be unable or unwilling to see this. In that case, perhaps A’s best course of action really is to expose B’s peculiarities somehow. But I think usually not: better to show that the fish are OK, and let others draw their own conclusions about why B thinks otherwise.
Let’s look at the dialogue from B’s perspective. My reading of it is that he does have a strong feeling, or opinion, about the fish. They smell bad, they probably aren’t fresh, they may be more likely to make him sick if he eats them. Now, what’s A done here?
1 He’s changed the subject. They were discussing A’s fish; now they’re discussing B’s feelings.
2 He’s made a status grab. If A says “let’s talk about your feelings” and B complies, that puts A in the position of therapist or teacher or something of the sort.
3 He’s implied B is wrong about the fish. Conversational implicatures: If B says “your fish are bad” and A says “so, tell me about your feelings about my fish”, A is presupposing that B’s feelings aren’t simply a consequence of the badness of the fish.
4 He’s implied B is being unreasonable. Conversational implicatures again.
5 He’s done these things implicitly which means that if B objects and tries to get back onto the subject of the fish, or to defend himself from the charge of unreasonableness, he is liable to look like he’s being petty.
It is not surprising if B doesn’t like this.
Now, to be clear, you’re not wrong about map and territory. Sometimes B will react negatively to A’s fish, and the reason really will lie in B’s quirks rather than any deficiency in the fish. This is one reason why it may well be a good idea for B to take an NVC-ish approach and begin by talking about his reaction to the fish rather than about the Fish-In-Themselves. (Well … probably not, actually, in this example. But in the situations it’s a metaphor for.) And if B charges in accusing A of selling rotten fish, then A is likely to get offended and defensive; that’s another reason why B may choose to do the NVC thing.
But it’s a different matter if A tries to oblige B to do that, especially if B has already made an object-level criticism of the Fish-In-Themselves. And, in a world where fishmongers do sometimes sell bad fish, it’s probably not a good idea to have norms that say B should never begin by criticizing the fish.
Returning from the metaphor to the reality of this thread for a moment: of course Valentine didn’t say anything like “PDV, you are obliged to respond by talking about your feelings”. Quite the reverse: he said “My preference would be...”. That’s surely better than trying to impose a literal obligation; but it’s easy enough (and not obviously wrong) to read Valentine’s words as trying to impose a social obligation. “Valentine’s made this reasonable request, and asked politely, and explained why; the least you can do is to comply”.
One more remark: sometimes B will react negatively, the reason will lie in B’s quirks, and B will be unable or unwilling to see this. In that case, perhaps A’s best course of action really is to expose B’s peculiarities somehow. But I think usually not: better to show that the fish are OK, and let others draw their own conclusions about why B thinks otherwise.
This is an accurate description of my mental state in this situation.