The reputational damage to Less Wrong has been done. Is there really anything to be gained by flipping moderation policy?
Answering the rhetorical question because the obvious answer is not what you imply [EDIT: I notice that J Taylor has made a far superior reply already]: Yes, it limits the ongoing reputational damage.
I’m not arguing with the moderation policy. But I will argue with bad arguments. Continue to implement the policy. You have the authority to do so, Eliezer has the power on this particular website to grant that authority, most people don’t care enough to argue against that behavior (I certainly don’t) and you can always delete the objections with only minimal consequences. But once you choose to make arguments that appeal to reason rather than the preferences of the person with legal power then you can be wrong.
At this point, let’s not taunt people with the right kind of mental pathology to be made very uncomfortable by the basilisk or meta-set of basilisks.
I’ve had people come to me who are traumatised by basilisk considerations. From what I can tell almost all of the trauma is attributable to Eliezer’s behavior. The descriptions of the experience give clear indications (ie. direct self reports that are coherent) that a significant reason that they “take the basilisk seriously” is because Eliezer considers it a sufficiently big deal that he takes such drastic and emotional action. Heck, without Eliezer’s response it wouldn’t even have earned that title. It’d be a trivial backwater game theory question to which there are multiple practical answers.
So please, just go back to deleting basilisk talk. That would be way less harmful than trying to persuade people with reason.
I’ve had people come to me who are traumatised by basilisk considerations. From what I can tell almost all of the trauma is attributable to Eliezer’s behavior. The descriptions of the experience give clear indications (ie. direct self reports that are coherent) that a significant reason that they “take the basilisk seriously” is because Eliezer considers it a sufficiently big deal that he takes such drastic and emotional action. Heck, without Eliezer’s response it wouldn’t even have earned that title. It’d be a trivial backwater game theory question to which there are multiple practical answers.
I get the people who’ve been frightened by it because EY seems to take it seriously too. (Dmytry also gets them, which is part of why he’s so perpetually pissed off at LW. He does his best to help, as a decent person would.) More generally, people distressed by it feel they can’t talk about it on LW, so they come to RW contributors—addressing this was why it was made a separate article. (I have no idea why Warren Ellis then Charlie Stross happened to latch onto it—I wish they hadn’t, because it was totally not ready, so I had to spend the past few days desperately fixing it up, and it’s still terrible.) EY not in fact thinking it’s feasible or important is a point I need to address in the last section of the RW article, to calm this concern.
It would be nice if you’d also address the extent to which it misrepresents other LessWrong contributors as thinking it is feasible or important (sometimes to the point of mocking them based on its own misrepresentation). People around LessWrong engage in hypothetical what-if discussions a lot; it doesn’t mean that they’re seriously concerned.
Lines like “Though it must be noted that LessWrong does not believe in or advocate the basilisk … just in almost all of the pieces that add up to it.” are also pretty terrible given we know only a fairly small percentage of “LessWrong” as a whole even consider unfriendly AI to be the biggest current existential risk. Really, this kind of misrepresentation of alleged, dubiously actually held extreme views as the perspective of the entire community is the bigger problem with both the LessWrong article and this one.
The article is still terrible, but it’s better than it was when Stross linked it. The greatest difficulty is describing the thing and the fuss accurately while explaining it to normal intelligent people without them pattern matching it to “serve the AI God or go to Hell”. This is proving the very hardest part. (Let’s assume for a moment 0% of them will sit down with 500K words of sequences.) I’m trying to leave it for a bit, having other things to do.
Answering the rhetorical question because the obvious answer is not what you imply [EDIT: I notice that J Taylor has made a far superior reply already]: Yes, it limits the ongoing reputational damage.
I’m not arguing with the moderation policy. But I will argue with bad arguments. Continue to implement the policy. You have the authority to do so, Eliezer has the power on this particular website to grant that authority, most people don’t care enough to argue against that behavior (I certainly don’t) and you can always delete the objections with only minimal consequences. But once you choose to make arguments that appeal to reason rather than the preferences of the person with legal power then you can be wrong.
I’ve had people come to me who are traumatised by basilisk considerations. From what I can tell almost all of the trauma is attributable to Eliezer’s behavior. The descriptions of the experience give clear indications (ie. direct self reports that are coherent) that a significant reason that they “take the basilisk seriously” is because Eliezer considers it a sufficiently big deal that he takes such drastic and emotional action. Heck, without Eliezer’s response it wouldn’t even have earned that title. It’d be a trivial backwater game theory question to which there are multiple practical answers.
So please, just go back to deleting basilisk talk. That would be way less harmful than trying to persuade people with reason.
I get the people who’ve been frightened by it because EY seems to take it seriously too. (Dmytry also gets them, which is part of why he’s so perpetually pissed off at LW. He does his best to help, as a decent person would.) More generally, people distressed by it feel they can’t talk about it on LW, so they come to RW contributors—addressing this was why it was made a separate article. (I have no idea why Warren Ellis then Charlie Stross happened to latch onto it—I wish they hadn’t, because it was totally not ready, so I had to spend the past few days desperately fixing it up, and it’s still terrible.) EY not in fact thinking it’s feasible or important is a point I need to address in the last section of the RW article, to calm this concern.
It would be nice if you’d also address the extent to which it misrepresents other LessWrong contributors as thinking it is feasible or important (sometimes to the point of mocking them based on its own misrepresentation). People around LessWrong engage in hypothetical what-if discussions a lot; it doesn’t mean that they’re seriously concerned.
Lines like “Though it must be noted that LessWrong does not believe in or advocate the basilisk … just in almost all of the pieces that add up to it.” are also pretty terrible given we know only a fairly small percentage of “LessWrong” as a whole even consider unfriendly AI to be the biggest current existential risk. Really, this kind of misrepresentation of alleged, dubiously actually held extreme views as the perspective of the entire community is the bigger problem with both the LessWrong article and this one.
The article is still terrible, but it’s better than it was when Stross linked it. The greatest difficulty is describing the thing and the fuss accurately while explaining it to normal intelligent people without them pattern matching it to “serve the AI God or go to Hell”. This is proving the very hardest part. (Let’s assume for a moment 0% of them will sit down with 500K words of sequences.) I’m trying to leave it for a bit, having other things to do.