You agree that’s a bad way to approach discussion, right?
Maybe I used to agree, but maybe a week of posts like this have gradually persuaded me, through persuasive arguments, otherwise. Quoting from you:
There were a few people I inspired to flame me. I know I provoked them. I didn’t actually do anything that deserves being flamed. But I broke etiquette some. It’s not a surprising result. Flaming me for some of the things I did is pretty normal. (Btw a few of the flames were deleted or edited a bit after being posted.) Some people would regard that as disaster. I regard is as success: I stopped speaking to those people. If I’d been super polite they might have pretended to have a civil discussion with me for longer while having rather irrational thoughts going through their head. The more they hide emotional reactions (for example), while actually having them, the more discussion can go wrong for unstated reasons.
But now you complain:
very rude
Oh great master of the breaking of etiquette. I am confused!
Then when swimmer963 wrote:
I hate confrontation
You responded:
You could change this. It’s not human nature. It’s not your genes. It’s a cultural bias. A very common one. And it’s important because criticism is the main tool by which we learn. When all criticism has to be made subtle, indirect, formal, filled with equivocation about whether the person stating it really means it, or various other things, then it slows down learning a lot.
Have you fallen into cultural bias?
Then when swimmer963 wrote:
I have this annoying tendency to care about anything that anyone says to or about me.
You responded:
You know, Feynman had this problem. He got over it. Maybe reading his books would help you. One of them is titled like “What do you care what other people think?”
Is it time for you to re-read this book?
I am confused. If you want others to respect some very basic ground rules of etiquette, then why did you preach the opposite only days ago?
It’s not that I care what he thinks, I just think posting crazy factual libels is a bad idea.
I never said one should ignore all etiquette of all types. There’s objective limits on what’s a good or bad idea in this area.
I’m not sure what you hope to gain by arguing this point with me. Do you just want to make me concede something in a debate or are you hoping to learn something?
I already know that etiquette is important, and why. I am pointing out that you also know that it is important when you are the target of a breach. So, even the one who preaches that etiquette be set aside in the bold pursuit of truth, does not really believe it, not when it’s his own ox being gored.
You have all along been oblivious to the reactions of others—admittedly so, proudly so. You have argued that your social obliviousness is a virtue, an intellectual strength, because such things as etiquette are mere obstacles in the road to reality. But this is mistaken, and even you intuit that it is, once the shoe is on the other foot—that is, once you stand in the place of those that you have antagonized and exasperated for an entire week. Your philosophy of antagonism serves no purpose but to justify your own failure or refusal to treat others well.
I don’t need you to concede anything. What I’ve done here is put together the pieces and given you a chance to respond.
I never said one should ignore all etiquette of all types. There’s objective limits on what’s a good or bad idea in this area.
Uh huh. Yet you offer no guidelines as to what is allowed, and what is off limits, after a week of preaching and practicing. Or to be more precise, you do offer a guide of sorts: you are off limits, and everyone else is fair game. What you are inclined to break, is okay to break. What you, for whatever reason, don’t break, nobody else must break.
A very rude one. The problem wasn’t that it was a conjecture but that it was a personal attack.
Here let me demonstrate:
You agree that’s a bad way to approach discussion, right?
Maybe I used to agree, but maybe a week of posts like this have gradually persuaded me, through persuasive arguments, otherwise. Quoting from you:
But now you complain:
Oh great master of the breaking of etiquette. I am confused!
Then when swimmer963 wrote:
You responded:
Have you fallen into cultural bias?
Then when swimmer963 wrote:
You responded:
Is it time for you to re-read this book?
I am confused. If you want others to respect some very basic ground rules of etiquette, then why did you preach the opposite only days ago?
It’s not that I care what he thinks, I just think posting crazy factual libels is a bad idea.
I never said one should ignore all etiquette of all types. There’s objective limits on what’s a good or bad idea in this area.
I’m not sure what you hope to gain by arguing this point with me. Do you just want to make me concede something in a debate or are you hoping to learn something?
I already know that etiquette is important, and why. I am pointing out that you also know that it is important when you are the target of a breach. So, even the one who preaches that etiquette be set aside in the bold pursuit of truth, does not really believe it, not when it’s his own ox being gored.
You have all along been oblivious to the reactions of others—admittedly so, proudly so. You have argued that your social obliviousness is a virtue, an intellectual strength, because such things as etiquette are mere obstacles in the road to reality. But this is mistaken, and even you intuit that it is, once the shoe is on the other foot—that is, once you stand in the place of those that you have antagonized and exasperated for an entire week. Your philosophy of antagonism serves no purpose but to justify your own failure or refusal to treat others well.
I don’t need you to concede anything. What I’ve done here is put together the pieces and given you a chance to respond.
Uh huh. Yet you offer no guidelines as to what is allowed, and what is off limits, after a week of preaching and practicing. Or to be more precise, you do offer a guide of sorts: you are off limits, and everyone else is fair game. What you are inclined to break, is okay to break. What you, for whatever reason, don’t break, nobody else must break.