Most likely you’re right, and I’m overestimating how bad my situation is. On the other hand, I wouldn’t say I’m in a good situation:
• I can find an average job easily, but: being a bottom-rung corporate drone filling Excel sheets suits neither my tastes nor my (probable) ADHD, and staying motivated on the sort of things I’m on track to end up doing as a career sounds really hard.
• Frankly, a big part of the issue is probably here: I used to be very curious, and still value curiosity a lot, but, like, it’s as if the depression I’ve been through completely destroyed my will to try anything other than daydreaming and worldbuilding. And, ok, I’ve also taken up good habits like exercising, cooking tasty meals, etc., but that’s not the same thing, is it? I just feel like I’m fast becoming lazier, and equally fast losing touch with the real world even more than before.
• My personal relationships are basically non-existent. I mean, I go to meetups, chat online with a bunch of people, etc., but that’s all. I’m more comfortable than most with not having close friends, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Yet, I think it’s more like I used to be comfortable with not having friends, and I’m starting to miss it? Possibly linked to a mildly shameful point: I had, a year ago, made a great friend, but I got depressed and ended up relying too much on that friend, in a way that made them uncomfortable, until we weren’t friends. I’m still ashamed at how unlike (what I thought of) myself my behaviour was then. What’s the point of seeing myself as nice and reasonably polite if my revealed preferences go the other way? But I guess I’m putting too much weight on that specific situation.
• That last point is possibly the biggest, most interesting, and most worrying issue: I’ve been on LW for four or five years, wanting to raise the general sanity waterline and my own personal one ; I’ve been aware of what mistakes I could make as an aspiring rationalist and how to avoid them for about as long ; I’ve noticed important issues in my life for at least four years (starting with the fact that I began hating my degree with a burning fury about a month after classes started, which is never a good sign) ; I’ve been determined to correct my flaws for as long as I can remember ; etc. And yet, I’ve made all those mistakes, made basically all my issues worse, etc., while being mostly aware of them. Looking back, I see myself turning into someone I despise, and noticing that I’m going the wrong way, and going anyway as if I couldn’t help it. I just don’t seem to be able to iterate and improve, although I agree I’m smart enough that I should be able to do it. It’s as if I didn’t dare to try out anything?
You say I compare myself to others. Might be true, my therapist seems to think the same. But the way I see it is more like, I compare myself to the sort of person I feel entitled to being? Because I used to be a promising kid with mild autism but no debilitating mental health issues, and now I’m always low-key wondering if I need to get committed to a madhouse. I just want to get back to being the good version of myself, that I was a few years ago. But you’re probably the one who is right in the end: that’s neither healthier nor easier than comparing oneself to the neighbour. And I’m not sure I wanted to be an entitled person.
I can find an average job easily, but: being a bottom-rung corporate drone filling Excel sheets suits neither my tastes nor my (probable) ADHD, and staying motivated on the sort of things I’m on track to end up doing as a career sounds really hard.
Hm, that makes sense. Even if it was a middle or top rung sort of thing, jobs still suck pretty bad in general. I get the sense that it’s a problem for many, many people. And I think for people like you who aren’t very NPC, the problem is even worse. So yeah, on second thought this does seem like a very real and legitimate problem.
Frankly, a big part of the issue is probably here: I used to be very curious, and still value curiosity a lot, but, like, it’s as if the depression I’ve been through completely destroyed my will to try anything other than daydreaming and worldbuilding. And, ok, I’ve also taken up good habits like exercising, cooking tasty meals, etc., but that’s not the same thing, is it? I just feel like I’m fast becoming lazier, and equally fast losing touch with the real world even more than before.
Hm, I see. Sorry to hear that. I wish I had good advice to give but I can’t do much better than guessing. The way I’d go about it would be to not force myself into anything, start off with a breadth-oriented search, and then when you have some promising candidates get more depth-oriented. As well as continuing to work on the mental health because that very well might be the blocker.
My personal relationships are basically non-existent. I mean, I go to meetups, chat online with a bunch of people, etc., but that’s all. I’m more comfortable than most with not having close friends, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Yet, I think it’s more like I used to be comfortable with not having friends, and I’m starting to miss it? Possibly linked to a mildly shameful point: I had, a year ago, made a great friend, but I got depressed and ended up relying too much on that friend, in a way that made them uncomfortable, until we weren’t friends. I’m still ashamed at how unlike (what I thought of) myself my behaviour was then. What’s the point of seeing myself as nice and reasonably polite if my revealed preferences go the other way? But I guess I’m putting too much weight on that specific situation.
Gotcha. It’s tough, making friends as an adult is weirdly very hard.
That last point is possibly the biggest, most interesting, and most worrying issue: I’ve been on LW for four or five years, wanting to raise the general sanity waterline and my own personal one ; I’ve been aware of what mistakes I could make as an aspiring rationalist and how to avoid them for about as long ; I’ve noticed important issues in my life for at least four years (starting with the fact that I began hating my degree with a burning fury about a month after classes started, which is never a good sign) ; I’ve been determined to correct my flaws for as long as I can remember ; etc. And yet, I’ve made all those mistakes, made basically all my issues worse, etc., while being mostly aware of them. Looking back, I see myself turning into someone I despise, and noticing that I’m going the wrong way, and going anyway as if I couldn’t help it. I just don’t seem to be able to iterate and improve, although I agree I’m smart enough that I should be able to do it. It’s as if I didn’t dare to try out anything?
Hm. What comes to my mind here is the concept of Valley of Bad Rationality. One thing is that, maybe the fact that you want to grow and are smart and introspective enough to notice your failures makes you feel guilty and bad. Like, as opposed to “normies” who don’t even care and don’t notice in the first place.
Another is just that progress isn’t incremental. You could grow as a rationalist and it very well might not lead to more winning. I like to think of this as a sort of latent progress. And I think that it is quite common. There’s been a lot of talk about how rationality has had disappointingly little benefit to people’s lives.
But still: the problem you point out of the historical lack of progress remains. I guess I’m just saying here that you’re not alone. And also I’d like to admit I think I wanted to be hopeful and optimistic in my original comment when I should have been aiming for realism.
Most likely you’re right, and I’m overestimating how bad my situation is. On the other hand, I wouldn’t say I’m in a good situation:
• I can find an average job easily, but: being a bottom-rung corporate drone filling Excel sheets suits neither my tastes nor my (probable) ADHD, and staying motivated on the sort of things I’m on track to end up doing as a career sounds really hard.
• Frankly, a big part of the issue is probably here: I used to be very curious, and still value curiosity a lot, but, like, it’s as if the depression I’ve been through completely destroyed my will to try anything other than daydreaming and worldbuilding. And, ok, I’ve also taken up good habits like exercising, cooking tasty meals, etc., but that’s not the same thing, is it? I just feel like I’m fast becoming lazier, and equally fast losing touch with the real world even more than before.
• My personal relationships are basically non-existent. I mean, I go to meetups, chat online with a bunch of people, etc., but that’s all. I’m more comfortable than most with not having close friends, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Yet, I think it’s more like I used to be comfortable with not having friends, and I’m starting to miss it? Possibly linked to a mildly shameful point: I had, a year ago, made a great friend, but I got depressed and ended up relying too much on that friend, in a way that made them uncomfortable, until we weren’t friends. I’m still ashamed at how unlike (what I thought of) myself my behaviour was then. What’s the point of seeing myself as nice and reasonably polite if my revealed preferences go the other way? But I guess I’m putting too much weight on that specific situation.
• That last point is possibly the biggest, most interesting, and most worrying issue: I’ve been on LW for four or five years, wanting to raise the general sanity waterline and my own personal one ; I’ve been aware of what mistakes I could make as an aspiring rationalist and how to avoid them for about as long ; I’ve noticed important issues in my life for at least four years (starting with the fact that I began hating my degree with a burning fury about a month after classes started, which is never a good sign) ; I’ve been determined to correct my flaws for as long as I can remember ; etc. And yet, I’ve made all those mistakes, made basically all my issues worse, etc., while being mostly aware of them. Looking back, I see myself turning into someone I despise, and noticing that I’m going the wrong way, and going anyway as if I couldn’t help it. I just don’t seem to be able to iterate and improve, although I agree I’m smart enough that I should be able to do it. It’s as if I didn’t dare to try out anything?
You say I compare myself to others. Might be true, my therapist seems to think the same. But the way I see it is more like, I compare myself to the sort of person I feel entitled to being? Because I used to be a promising kid with mild autism but no debilitating mental health issues, and now I’m always low-key wondering if I need to get committed to a madhouse. I just want to get back to being the good version of myself, that I was a few years ago. But you’re probably the one who is right in the end: that’s neither healthier nor easier than comparing oneself to the neighbour. And I’m not sure I wanted to be an entitled person.
Hm, that makes sense. Even if it was a middle or top rung sort of thing, jobs still suck pretty bad in general. I get the sense that it’s a problem for many, many people. And I think for people like you who aren’t very NPC, the problem is even worse. So yeah, on second thought this does seem like a very real and legitimate problem.
Hm, I see. Sorry to hear that. I wish I had good advice to give but I can’t do much better than guessing. The way I’d go about it would be to not force myself into anything, start off with a breadth-oriented search, and then when you have some promising candidates get more depth-oriented. As well as continuing to work on the mental health because that very well might be the blocker.
Gotcha. It’s tough, making friends as an adult is weirdly very hard.
Hm. What comes to my mind here is the concept of Valley of Bad Rationality. One thing is that, maybe the fact that you want to grow and are smart and introspective enough to notice your failures makes you feel guilty and bad. Like, as opposed to “normies” who don’t even care and don’t notice in the first place.
Another is just that progress isn’t incremental. You could grow as a rationalist and it very well might not lead to more winning. I like to think of this as a sort of latent progress. And I think that it is quite common. There’s been a lot of talk about how rationality has had disappointingly little benefit to people’s lives.
But still: the problem you point out of the historical lack of progress remains. I guess I’m just saying here that you’re not alone. And also I’d like to admit I think I wanted to be hopeful and optimistic in my original comment when I should have been aiming for realism.