That doesn’t seem analogous. I mean, I eventually want to be at the point where I will only be doing direct paperclip production, for most of the mass in the universe. In contrast, humans do not want to eventually be at the point where they consume all of the universe.
Clip-gluttony, then, diverges from gluttony in a significant way.
Clip-gluttony, then, diverges from gluttony in a significant way.
I’m not sure I agree, Clippy. Perhaps my jargon was unclear.
By economic production, I mean taking a unit of inert matter and converting it into a source of potential utility.
By economic consumption, I mean taking a unit of potential utility and converting it into a unit of actual utility.
By physical consumption, I mean taking a unit of matter, inert or otherwise, and disrupting its pattern in order to arrange it in some other pattern.
You’re right, Clippy, to point out that economic consumption and physical consumption amount to much the same thing for you. To make a paper clip, you have to both convert potential utility to actual utility, and disrupt the pattern of non-paper-clip-shaped matter. And, granted, humans don’t necessarily share that trait—they might be able to economically consume a human good like leisure or company while physically consuming very little in the way of material resources.
Still, even though humans don’t want to physically consume the entire universe, like you, we probably do want to reach a point where we are only converting potential utility into actual utility, and doing little or no economic production. We want to reach a state where the existing sources of sustainable human economic production are either (1) maximized, (2) infinite, or (3) sufficient to meet all the demand for human economic consumption. Don’t you want something very similar to that, substituting the word “clip” for the word “human”?
Thus, for both you and for us, gluttony means failing to maximize long-term actual utility by economically consuming too much too soon.
Okay, if you want to generalize the concept of gluttony broadly enough that it has an analog for Clippys, then the definition you have chosen suffices for this purpose, and I can recognize that as being a vice, for two reasons:
a) It is certainly undesirable to merely make paperclips directly without concern for how many more paperclips could be made, over the long term, by doing something else; and
b) I do often feel “temptation” to do such behavior, like bending metal wires when machines could do a better job, just as humans have “temptations” toward vices.
Clippy, how do you overcome this kind of temptation? A human analogy might be refusing to push the fat man, even when it saves more lives, but not everyone considers that a vice.
Clippy, for you, the direct production of paper clips is like consumption for a human. So...
Too little direct paper clip production: greed
Appropriate direct production: continence/prudence
Too much direct paper clip production: gluttony
That doesn’t seem analogous. I mean, I eventually want to be at the point where I will only be doing direct paperclip production, for most of the mass in the universe. In contrast, humans do not want to eventually be at the point where they consume all of the universe.
Clip-gluttony, then, diverges from gluttony in a significant way.
I’m not sure I agree, Clippy. Perhaps my jargon was unclear.
By economic production, I mean taking a unit of inert matter and converting it into a source of potential utility.
By economic consumption, I mean taking a unit of potential utility and converting it into a unit of actual utility.
By physical consumption, I mean taking a unit of matter, inert or otherwise, and disrupting its pattern in order to arrange it in some other pattern.
You’re right, Clippy, to point out that economic consumption and physical consumption amount to much the same thing for you. To make a paper clip, you have to both convert potential utility to actual utility, and disrupt the pattern of non-paper-clip-shaped matter. And, granted, humans don’t necessarily share that trait—they might be able to economically consume a human good like leisure or company while physically consuming very little in the way of material resources.
Still, even though humans don’t want to physically consume the entire universe, like you, we probably do want to reach a point where we are only converting potential utility into actual utility, and doing little or no economic production. We want to reach a state where the existing sources of sustainable human economic production are either (1) maximized, (2) infinite, or (3) sufficient to meet all the demand for human economic consumption. Don’t you want something very similar to that, substituting the word “clip” for the word “human”?
Thus, for both you and for us, gluttony means failing to maximize long-term actual utility by economically consuming too much too soon.
Okay, if you want to generalize the concept of gluttony broadly enough that it has an analog for Clippys, then the definition you have chosen suffices for this purpose, and I can recognize that as being a vice, for two reasons:
a) It is certainly undesirable to merely make paperclips directly without concern for how many more paperclips could be made, over the long term, by doing something else; and
b) I do often feel “temptation” to do such behavior, like bending metal wires when machines could do a better job, just as humans have “temptations” toward vices.
Your argument is accepted.
Clippy, how do you overcome this kind of temptation? A human analogy might be refusing to push the fat man, even when it saves more lives, but not everyone considers that a vice.
I typically just do computations on how many more paperclips would be undergoing bending by machines, or observe paperclips under construction.
A better analogy would be human gluttony, in which there is a temptation to consume much more than optimal, which most regard as a vice, I believe.