This reply made my cry more than any other. But I know this kind of crying—it happens when somebody opens my eyes to a different perspective, so it’s good crying.
My hope was mostly broken, but I kept trying to fix it. Popular psychology makes people believe that they can make almost any relationship work. Yesterday evening I felt lighter. I could start thinking “I can let go of trying now.”
A quick way to begin poking holes in this belief is to imagine that you have done everything perfectly to their desire, been the exact person they wanted you to be… and then ask that same part of your brain, “What would happen then?”
I would be like my sister and have what she has. She can pull off almost any kind of abstruse plan which involves parents doing something for her or giving her money. I resent that ability of her and yet would like to be able to do almost the same. My mind has trouble going further, ponder what if I was better than her. I don’t really believe your version, but in fact I can remember one situation exactly like that. When I was better and what happened next. I got a 5 on a biology test (scale 1-6, where 1 is fail, 6 is outstanding), she got a 4. Normally only people with grades lower than 3 can retake a test, but parents made her retake the test and me teach her. She got a 5+ on the retake (it’s also frowned upon when getting a 6 is possible on a retake, since the second test should be a chance to pass only for those kids who failed), they were satistifed and I was bitter.
The right answer is that they would not pay attention to me being good enough. They would concentrate on her being worse than me. And try to make me help her be at least as good as me (and also push her). Since being exactly the same is not really possible, she would end up being better than me, again. And I would be even more disappointed.
I doubt myself a lot. You and others, who say “this relationship is unfixable” really say “you were right, you only doubted too much.”
The right answer is that they would not pay attention to me being good enough. They would concentrate on her being worse than me. And try to make me help her be at least as good as me (and also push her). Since being exactly the same is not really possible, she would end up being better than me, again. And I would be even more disappointed.
The key thing to focus on here is that even when you were better, they still didn’t treat you with the love or respect or appreciation that you are looking for. That’s the part you need to connect with, to realize on an emotional level that it’s not really about you.
Your brain is doing something I call the Prime Conclusion/Prime Assumption pattern. It goes sort of like this:
The Prime Assumption: If I were good enough, then other people would care.
The Prime Conclusion: If others don’t care, then I am not good enough.
The Prime Assumption is actually false: your parents wouldn’t care even if you were good enough, as your experience already proves. There is no level of “good enough” that is sufficient to make them act differently.
The really good thing is, once you break this assumption, the conclusion is also broken. You will realize then that, if no amount of “good enough” will get you care, then that means the care is not under your control. It is not your responsibility to do anything to make them care, and you will stop feeling “not good enough”. (More precisely, you’ll no longer interpret your parents’ behavior as meaning you’re not good enough, and it will be more difficult—though not impossible! -- for your parents to make you feel inadequate.)
You and others, who say “this relationship is unfixable” really say “you were right, you only doubted too much.”
I don’t say the relationship is unfixable, actually. When you actually let go of wanting/needing pats on the back from them, then you’ll have a real choice about whether to continue relating to them or not. You won’t be coming from a place of neediness and shame, and will be able to set better boundaries. Nobody can predict exactly what form your relationship with them will take. You may find that you can love them for who they are, or you may find that you don’t actually enjoy their company and choose not to spend time with them. You may find that you can set effective boundaries. Who knows?
What is unfixable is not the relationship per se, but your intention to obtain love, appreciation, etc. from them. You already know from experience that you can’t get it, but you haven’t yet realized it “in your heart” (i.e., the emotional/alief side of your brain). The book I suggested can help a lot with that.
When we try to get love and respect from others, feeling we don’t have it ourselves, it’s not because we actually don’t deserve them, and it’s not because we actually need for other people to have a particular opinion about us. What really happens is that we feel bad when we share those people’s opinions of ourselves.
Since you’ve assumed that you being good enough would result in care (Prime Assumption), you conclude that the lack of care means you’re not good enough (Prime Conclusion). Once you’ve concluded this, you then proceed to not care for yourself, either. You don’t treat yourself with the kindness, respect, appreciation, etc. that you actually deserve.
However, if you realize that this idea is wrong, you can learn to give yourself that kindness and respect and love that you’re missing—and won’t feel the need to act a certain way around your parents, or the need to convince them to act a certain way around you. (Again, the book I suggested will help a lot with this.)
you’ll have a real choice about whether to continue relating to them or not. You won’t be coming from a place of neediness and shame, and will be able to set better boundaries. Nobody can predict exactly what form your relationship with them will take. You may find that you can love them for who they are, or you may find that you don’t actually enjoy their company and choose not to spend time with them. You may find that you can set effective boundaries. Who knows?
I’ll save this for future reference.
Right now I feel cutting myself from my parents from my perspective would be a punishment for them (and I know mother would not care, so it would be in vain—yesterday we were in the same room and as an experiment I tried to not talk first but look available to conversation. She didn’t even say “hello” or “I didn’t expect you here, why did you come?”). I have too much grudge yet to have a real choice.
A grudge is what the algorithm for “they owe me and I think I can collect via social pressure” feels like from the inside. This implies that you still believe:
They owe you something, and
It’s possible to collect
Both of these statements are false, but it’s easier to start with the second one. Admit the truth: barring a miracle, you are never going to collect this “debt”, because it’s not one your parents will ever acknowledge. Indeed, I would guess that if someone held a gun to their heads and insisted they repent, they’d be like, “What are you talking about? We didn’t do anything to her!”
When you finally admit to yourself that this is true, there won’t be a grudge any more, because the grudge is nothing more than your brain’s insistence that you should be able to collect, in denial of the fact that you can’t collect. Use the Litany of Gendlin and the Litany of Tarski here, or the questions from The Work of Byron Katie, which is particularly effective at resolving grudges and judgments directed at other people.
One of the things Byron Katie sometimes says about these kinds of judgments is that in order to free yourself, you have to want to know the truth, more than you want to be right, or than you want to get whatever it is from that person. The truth will set you free, but first it’s going to annoy the hell out of you. ;-)
This reply made my cry more than any other. But I know this kind of crying—it happens when somebody opens my eyes to a different perspective, so it’s good crying.
My hope was mostly broken, but I kept trying to fix it. Popular psychology makes people believe that they can make almost any relationship work. Yesterday evening I felt lighter. I could start thinking “I can let go of trying now.”
I would be like my sister and have what she has. She can pull off almost any kind of abstruse plan which involves parents doing something for her or giving her money. I resent that ability of her and yet would like to be able to do almost the same. My mind has trouble going further, ponder what if I was better than her. I don’t really believe your version, but in fact I can remember one situation exactly like that. When I was better and what happened next. I got a 5 on a biology test (scale 1-6, where 1 is fail, 6 is outstanding), she got a 4. Normally only people with grades lower than 3 can retake a test, but parents made her retake the test and me teach her. She got a 5+ on the retake (it’s also frowned upon when getting a 6 is possible on a retake, since the second test should be a chance to pass only for those kids who failed), they were satistifed and I was bitter.
The right answer is that they would not pay attention to me being good enough. They would concentrate on her being worse than me. And try to make me help her be at least as good as me (and also push her). Since being exactly the same is not really possible, she would end up being better than me, again. And I would be even more disappointed.
I doubt myself a lot. You and others, who say “this relationship is unfixable” really say “you were right, you only doubted too much.”
The key thing to focus on here is that even when you were better, they still didn’t treat you with the love or respect or appreciation that you are looking for. That’s the part you need to connect with, to realize on an emotional level that it’s not really about you.
Your brain is doing something I call the Prime Conclusion/Prime Assumption pattern. It goes sort of like this:
The Prime Assumption: If I were good enough, then other people would care.
The Prime Conclusion: If others don’t care, then I am not good enough.
The Prime Assumption is actually false: your parents wouldn’t care even if you were good enough, as your experience already proves. There is no level of “good enough” that is sufficient to make them act differently.
The really good thing is, once you break this assumption, the conclusion is also broken. You will realize then that, if no amount of “good enough” will get you care, then that means the care is not under your control. It is not your responsibility to do anything to make them care, and you will stop feeling “not good enough”. (More precisely, you’ll no longer interpret your parents’ behavior as meaning you’re not good enough, and it will be more difficult—though not impossible! -- for your parents to make you feel inadequate.)
I don’t say the relationship is unfixable, actually. When you actually let go of wanting/needing pats on the back from them, then you’ll have a real choice about whether to continue relating to them or not. You won’t be coming from a place of neediness and shame, and will be able to set better boundaries. Nobody can predict exactly what form your relationship with them will take. You may find that you can love them for who they are, or you may find that you don’t actually enjoy their company and choose not to spend time with them. You may find that you can set effective boundaries. Who knows?
What is unfixable is not the relationship per se, but your intention to obtain love, appreciation, etc. from them. You already know from experience that you can’t get it, but you haven’t yet realized it “in your heart” (i.e., the emotional/alief side of your brain). The book I suggested can help a lot with that.
When we try to get love and respect from others, feeling we don’t have it ourselves, it’s not because we actually don’t deserve them, and it’s not because we actually need for other people to have a particular opinion about us. What really happens is that we feel bad when we share those people’s opinions of ourselves.
Since you’ve assumed that you being good enough would result in care (Prime Assumption), you conclude that the lack of care means you’re not good enough (Prime Conclusion). Once you’ve concluded this, you then proceed to not care for yourself, either. You don’t treat yourself with the kindness, respect, appreciation, etc. that you actually deserve.
However, if you realize that this idea is wrong, you can learn to give yourself that kindness and respect and love that you’re missing—and won’t feel the need to act a certain way around your parents, or the need to convince them to act a certain way around you. (Again, the book I suggested will help a lot with this.)
I’ll save this for future reference.
Right now I feel cutting myself from my parents from my perspective would be a punishment for them (and I know mother would not care, so it would be in vain—yesterday we were in the same room and as an experiment I tried to not talk first but look available to conversation. She didn’t even say “hello” or “I didn’t expect you here, why did you come?”). I have too much grudge yet to have a real choice.
A grudge is what the algorithm for “they owe me and I think I can collect via social pressure” feels like from the inside. This implies that you still believe:
They owe you something, and
It’s possible to collect
Both of these statements are false, but it’s easier to start with the second one. Admit the truth: barring a miracle, you are never going to collect this “debt”, because it’s not one your parents will ever acknowledge. Indeed, I would guess that if someone held a gun to their heads and insisted they repent, they’d be like, “What are you talking about? We didn’t do anything to her!”
When you finally admit to yourself that this is true, there won’t be a grudge any more, because the grudge is nothing more than your brain’s insistence that you should be able to collect, in denial of the fact that you can’t collect. Use the Litany of Gendlin and the Litany of Tarski here, or the questions from The Work of Byron Katie, which is particularly effective at resolving grudges and judgments directed at other people.
One of the things Byron Katie sometimes says about these kinds of judgments is that in order to free yourself, you have to want to know the truth, more than you want to be right, or than you want to get whatever it is from that person. The truth will set you free, but first it’s going to annoy the hell out of you. ;-)