I know a lot of skeptics like this and I try to share with them EY’s post on “undiscriminating skepticism.” This post ‘saved’ me from a similar fate when I found myself going down this path.
I know a lot of skeptics like this and I try to share with them EY’s post on “undiscriminating skepticism.”
The problem is that phrases like that are common amongst pseudoskeptic peddlers of woo who think they like the idea of rationalism but get upset when their ox is gored. (e.g.SCEPCOP, WikiSynergy.)
Or, more simply: “You don’t like my ideas, therefore you are the wrong sort of skeptic.”
So the use of such a phrase is taken as evidence in the direction of that being what’s happened. Which is not unreasonable given the assumption that most humans are excessively biased in favour of their own ideas.
Or, more simply: “Oh, really. So let’s look more closely and see which ox of yours has been gored.”
You don’t get to call someone an undiscriminating skeptic if they’re prepared to publically challenge any skeptical tribal belief. The post on undiscriminating skepticism is actually pretty specific; characterizing it as “skepticism I don’t like” makes it sound like you haven’t read it.
I was talking, as I noted explicitly, about the hazards of the use of the phrase or phrases very like it. (That’s the bit where I went “The problem is that phrases like that …” “So the use of such a phrase …”) The people Zachary points at the post are, after all, going to start reading at the title, and not immediately read it in the detail you read Eliezer’s post in, or the detail you don’t seem to have read my comment in.
Interesting. I’m involved in the skeptical movement, and while I’ve encountered a few similar to what you describe, my impression is that most skeptics don’t fall into that category. Skeptics are generally proud that they update based on evidence. Indeed, the most prominent exceptions help drive this point home. PZ Myers has said repeatedly that nothing would convince him that there’s a deity and he’s been repeatedly hammered by most of the skeptical movement over this statement.
Good on them! In my experience, whenever I sneak bayesian updating into the conversation, it’s well received by skeptics. When I try to introduce Bayes more formally or start supporting anti-mainstream ideas, such as cryonics, AI, etc, there’s much more resistance.
I know a lot of skeptics like this and I try to share with them EY’s post on “undiscriminating skepticism.” This post ‘saved’ me from a similar fate when I found myself going down this path.
The problem is that phrases like that are common amongst pseudoskeptic peddlers of woo who think they like the idea of rationalism but get upset when their ox is gored. (e.g. SCEPCOP, WikiSynergy.)
Or, more simply: “You don’t like my ideas, therefore you are the wrong sort of skeptic.”
So the use of such a phrase is taken as evidence in the direction of that being what’s happened. Which is not unreasonable given the assumption that most humans are excessively biased in favour of their own ideas.
Or, more simply: “Oh, really. So let’s look more closely and see which ox of yours has been gored.”
You don’t get to call someone an undiscriminating skeptic if they’re prepared to publically challenge any skeptical tribal belief. The post on undiscriminating skepticism is actually pretty specific; characterizing it as “skepticism I don’t like” makes it sound like you haven’t read it.
I was talking, as I noted explicitly, about the hazards of the use of the phrase or phrases very like it. (That’s the bit where I went “The problem is that phrases like that …” “So the use of such a phrase …”) The people Zachary points at the post are, after all, going to start reading at the title, and not immediately read it in the detail you read Eliezer’s post in, or the detail you don’t seem to have read my comment in.
Interesting. I’m involved in the skeptical movement, and while I’ve encountered a few similar to what you describe, my impression is that most skeptics don’t fall into that category. Skeptics are generally proud that they update based on evidence. Indeed, the most prominent exceptions help drive this point home. PZ Myers has said repeatedly that nothing would convince him that there’s a deity and he’s been repeatedly hammered by most of the skeptical movement over this statement.
Good on them! In my experience, whenever I sneak bayesian updating into the conversation, it’s well received by skeptics. When I try to introduce Bayes more formally or start supporting anti-mainstream ideas, such as cryonics, AI, etc, there’s much more resistance.