all papers show it’s [surgery] by a huge margin the most effective way of long term weight loss
I don’t have any evidence yet, but I claim that we can engineer a better way.
Thanks for the points about the problems with scale weight and the sensible alternative of navel circumference. I do think, though, that scale weight is not a crazy proxy, with some precautions (such as gradual loss). After all, if you’re far from your bodyfat goal (and you’re not a bodybuilder) then you know with certainty that the scale will say a smaller number when you’re done. What I tell people is to first “kibotz” down to an upper bound on their ideal weight and then switch to a better metric.
You will have significant amount of muscles that you might loss even if you don’t have anything to do with bodybuilding. Most seriously restricted diets put you on insufficient proteins (if you scale everything by the same %, you have insufficient proteins, and vitamins etc.), plus there’s no reserve storage mechanism like with carbs and fats so you cannot just average them weekly, so your muscles are the only reserve source your body can use. So you will lose a lot of muscle, and all associated water, what will result in much faster weight loss than just losing fat on responsible diet.
The main difference is that normal people will rebounce back to normal amount of muscle, regaining all the water too etc. (that’s part but not all of the whole after-diet rebounce) Bodybuilders cannot really do that, as they have much more muscles than they’re supposed to.
Anyway if kibotzer works for you, go for it. I’m just guessing it won’t work for most people, for the same reasons mainstream dieting doesn’t.
My “unless you’re a bodybuilder” caveat was just to point out that if you have, say, over a third bodyfat then you surely want your scale weight to go down as a side effect of losing the bodyfat, unless you also want to add massive amounts of muscle.
But we do mostly agree about the physiology and you definitely should add muscle as part of “weight loss”. Muscle pretty much burns calories just sitting there, so it’s a huge help. I definitely recommend some weight training as part of any fitness plan. Losing weight by just eating less can often be a death spiral where you have to keep eating less and less as your metabolism adapts to the fewer calories. The human body is impressively adept at maintaining its weight. Another thing I recommend is having occasional flat spots on your “yellow brick road”. If it’s hard to keep from gaining, let alone losing, then you’re doing it wrong.
I guess we’re getting far afield from the anti-akrasia aspects though. Again, kibotzer is agnostic about what metric you use to measure your progress, though the simpler it is to measure the better. (And we’ve put thought into the case of scale weight as a metric, figuring out how to adjust for random fluctuations and how to avoid losing weight the wrong way, like you’re talking about.)
So I think we agree, “seriously restricted diets” are bad news and muscle gain should be part of any “weight loss” plan. But for most people that still means a gradually decreasing scale weight so I stand by it as a useful metric.
I don’t have any evidence yet, but I claim that we can engineer a better way.
Thanks for the points about the problems with scale weight and the sensible alternative of navel circumference. I do think, though, that scale weight is not a crazy proxy, with some precautions (such as gradual loss). After all, if you’re far from your bodyfat goal (and you’re not a bodybuilder) then you know with certainty that the scale will say a smaller number when you’re done. What I tell people is to first “kibotz” down to an upper bound on their ideal weight and then switch to a better metric.
In any case, Kibotzer is largely metric-agnostic.
You will have significant amount of muscles that you might loss even if you don’t have anything to do with bodybuilding. Most seriously restricted diets put you on insufficient proteins (if you scale everything by the same %, you have insufficient proteins, and vitamins etc.), plus there’s no reserve storage mechanism like with carbs and fats so you cannot just average them weekly, so your muscles are the only reserve source your body can use. So you will lose a lot of muscle, and all associated water, what will result in much faster weight loss than just losing fat on responsible diet.
The main difference is that normal people will rebounce back to normal amount of muscle, regaining all the water too etc. (that’s part but not all of the whole after-diet rebounce) Bodybuilders cannot really do that, as they have much more muscles than they’re supposed to.
Anyway if kibotzer works for you, go for it. I’m just guessing it won’t work for most people, for the same reasons mainstream dieting doesn’t.
My “unless you’re a bodybuilder” caveat was just to point out that if you have, say, over a third bodyfat then you surely want your scale weight to go down as a side effect of losing the bodyfat, unless you also want to add massive amounts of muscle.
But we do mostly agree about the physiology and you definitely should add muscle as part of “weight loss”. Muscle pretty much burns calories just sitting there, so it’s a huge help. I definitely recommend some weight training as part of any fitness plan. Losing weight by just eating less can often be a death spiral where you have to keep eating less and less as your metabolism adapts to the fewer calories. The human body is impressively adept at maintaining its weight. Another thing I recommend is having occasional flat spots on your “yellow brick road”. If it’s hard to keep from gaining, let alone losing, then you’re doing it wrong.
I guess we’re getting far afield from the anti-akrasia aspects though. Again, kibotzer is agnostic about what metric you use to measure your progress, though the simpler it is to measure the better. (And we’ve put thought into the case of scale weight as a metric, figuring out how to adjust for random fluctuations and how to avoid losing weight the wrong way, like you’re talking about.)
So I think we agree, “seriously restricted diets” are bad news and muscle gain should be part of any “weight loss” plan. But for most people that still means a gradually decreasing scale weight so I stand by it as a useful metric.