I love your observations here. The quality of grounding in a clear intuition here.
I don’t think you can avoid the subculture thing. The discipline doesn’t exist in a void the way math kind of does. Unless & until you can actually define the practice of rationality, there’s no clear dividing line between the social scene and the set of people who practice the discipline. No clear analogue to “actually playing a guitar”.
Like, I think I follow your intuition, but consider:
Meanwhile, I know at least some people definitely meet any reasonable bar for “actually a goddamn rationalist”. If you intentionally reflect on and direct your cognitive patterns in ways that are more likely to find true beliefs and accomplish your goals, and you’ve gone off into the world and solved some difficult problems that depended on you being able to do that… I think you’re just plain a rationalist.
I’m reasonably sure a lot of people here would consider me a great example of a non-rationalist. Lots of folk told me that to my face while I worked at CFAR. But the above describes me to an utter T. I’m just doing it in a way that the culture here doesn’t approve of and thinks is pretty nutty. Which is fine. I think the culture here is doing its “truth-seeking” in a pretty nutty way too. Y’all are getting great results predicting Covid case numbers, and I’m getting great results guiding people to cure their social anxiety and depression. To each their own.
I think what you’re talking about is way, way more of an aesthetic than you might realize. Like, what are you really using to detect who is and isn’t “actually a goddamn rationalist”? My guess is it’s more of a gut sense that you then try to examine upon reflection.
Is Elon Musk “actually a goddamn rationalist”? He sure seems to care about what’s true and about being effective in the world. But I’m guessing he somehow lands as less of a central example than Oli or Eliezer do. If so, why?
If Elon doesn’t do it for you, insert some other successful smart person who mysteriously doesn’t gut-ping as “actually a goddamn rationalist”.
If I’m way off here, I’d actually be pretty interested in knowing that. Because I’d find that illuminating as to what you mean by rationalism.
But if I’m basically right, then you’re not going to separate the discipline from the social scene with a term. You’ll keep seeing social status and perception of skill conflated. Not exactly overlapping, but muddled nonetheless.
I love your observations here. The quality of grounding in a clear intuition here.
I don’t think you can avoid the subculture thing. The discipline doesn’t exist in a void the way math kind of does. Unless & until you can actually define the practice of rationality, there’s no clear dividing line between the social scene and the set of people who practice the discipline. No clear analogue to “actually playing a guitar”.
Like, I think I follow your intuition, but consider:
I’m reasonably sure a lot of people here would consider me a great example of a non-rationalist. Lots of folk told me that to my face while I worked at CFAR. But the above describes me to an utter T. I’m just doing it in a way that the culture here doesn’t approve of and thinks is pretty nutty. Which is fine. I think the culture here is doing its “truth-seeking” in a pretty nutty way too. Y’all are getting great results predicting Covid case numbers, and I’m getting great results guiding people to cure their social anxiety and depression. To each their own.
I think what you’re talking about is way, way more of an aesthetic than you might realize. Like, what are you really using to detect who is and isn’t “actually a goddamn rationalist”? My guess is it’s more of a gut sense that you then try to examine upon reflection.
Is Elon Musk “actually a goddamn rationalist”? He sure seems to care about what’s true and about being effective in the world. But I’m guessing he somehow lands as less of a central example than Oli or Eliezer do. If so, why?
If Elon doesn’t do it for you, insert some other successful smart person who mysteriously doesn’t gut-ping as “actually a goddamn rationalist”.
If I’m way off here, I’d actually be pretty interested in knowing that. Because I’d find that illuminating as to what you mean by rationalism.
But if I’m basically right, then you’re not going to separate the discipline from the social scene with a term. You’ll keep seeing social status and perception of skill conflated. Not exactly overlapping, but muddled nonetheless.