Do you think psychiatry is totally useless or harmful even for voluntary patients?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no?
If yes (as seemingly suggested by the reference you linked), that seems to be the real crux between you and people like the ones I linked to, so why not argue about that to begin with?
We’re in a subthread about whether the claims of psychiatry are true. You suggested maybe coercion is good even if the claims are not scientifically valid. I said no, that’s morally repugnant. You linked people making that argument. I see that the argument relies on the premise that the claims of psychiatry aren’t bullshit, so it doesn’t show coercion is good even if the claims are not scientifically valid. So you are not asking for a form of interpretive labor that is reasonable in context.
I don’t have much to say about the research link except (a) this doesn’t look like an unbiased metaanalysis and (b) authoritarian control systems will often produce outcomes for subjects that look better on-paper through more domination but this is a pretty bad ethical argument in the context of justifying the system. Like, maybe slaves who run away experience worse health outcomes than slaves who remain slaves, because they have to hide from authorities, could get killed if they’re caught later, are more likely to starve, etc. (And they’re less likely to be employed!)
(Disengaging because it seems like we’re talking past each other, I don’t see a low-effort way to get things back on track, and this doesn’t seem like an important enough topic (at least from my perspective) to put a lot more effort into.)
Sometimes yes, sometimes no?
We’re in a subthread about whether the claims of psychiatry are true. You suggested maybe coercion is good even if the claims are not scientifically valid. I said no, that’s morally repugnant. You linked people making that argument. I see that the argument relies on the premise that the claims of psychiatry aren’t bullshit, so it doesn’t show coercion is good even if the claims are not scientifically valid. So you are not asking for a form of interpretive labor that is reasonable in context.
I don’t have much to say about the research link except (a) this doesn’t look like an unbiased metaanalysis and (b) authoritarian control systems will often produce outcomes for subjects that look better on-paper through more domination but this is a pretty bad ethical argument in the context of justifying the system. Like, maybe slaves who run away experience worse health outcomes than slaves who remain slaves, because they have to hide from authorities, could get killed if they’re caught later, are more likely to starve, etc. (And they’re less likely to be employed!)
(Disengaging because it seems like we’re talking past each other, I don’t see a low-effort way to get things back on track, and this doesn’t seem like an important enough topic (at least from my perspective) to put a lot more effort into.)