Thank you for an honest assessment of your own views, and a question, instead of just laying into an attack. I’ll see what I can do to respond in the same spirit.
Isn’t this a well known theist apologist position, the “argument from miracles”? You actually get a whole lot of links for that, starting at La Wik.
But you have a lot of odd ducks here, so you might get something new.
when atheists make their case, they assume a universe without miracles
I’m sure some do, but it’s certainly not necessary.
But let’s be clear about what we’re talking about when you say miracle. It seems to be events caused by the will of an agent through magic.
Quantum fluctuations, with no known hidden variable cause, presumed to be ontologically random, are not what you’re after, right?
So, I try magic occasionally. I point my hand at something, concentrate, and “will it to move”. Haven’t gotten it to work yet. That part is the problem. It hasn’t worked for me. Never has. And it doesn’t seem to work for anyone else either.
HPMOR is about a hyper rationalist atheist living in a magical world. Magic works just fine for him. The important ting isn’t the physics that’s our current best conclusion on how things work, but the empirical method of coming at our conclusions. What do you know, and how do you claim to know it?
What we have are reports and claims of events that people can’t explain. Do you know of any evidence of a such an event that you find convincing and inexplicable? I don’t.
And even if there were such an event, it seems to me a huge epistemological leap to go from “I can’t explain” to “invisible beings are fucking with me through magic”. And an even greater epistemological leap from that to “the Christian narrative is true”.
That’s the point that you haven’t elaborated on.By what evidence or logic do you go from “invisible beings are fucking with me through magic” to “the Christian narrative is true”?
Even if you feel compelled to keep your miracles, you can still drop your cross.
p.s. Shouldn’t Harry be pondering those little notes he gets from the Time Cop a little more?
What we have are reports and claims of events that people can’t explain. Do you know of any evidence of a such an event that you find convincing and inexplicable? I don’t.
The original Out Lady of Fatima incident (the miracle of the sun) is still unexplained, and too large to be coincidence. I don’t find it convincing, but it certainly remains evidence in favor of miracles.
Present accounts of Fatima happenings come from very few, very biased sources. Those sources, for examples, omit the fact that also a portion of people present saw nothing. Also, account from different witnesses vary a lot from one another.
Thank you for an honest assessment of your own views, and a question, instead of just laying into an attack. I’ll see what I can do to respond in the same spirit.
Isn’t this a well known theist apologist position, the “argument from miracles”? You actually get a whole lot of links for that, starting at La Wik.
But you have a lot of odd ducks here, so you might get something new.
I’m sure some do, but it’s certainly not necessary.
But let’s be clear about what we’re talking about when you say miracle. It seems to be events caused by the will of an agent through magic.
Quantum fluctuations, with no known hidden variable cause, presumed to be ontologically random, are not what you’re after, right?
So, I try magic occasionally. I point my hand at something, concentrate, and “will it to move”. Haven’t gotten it to work yet. That part is the problem. It hasn’t worked for me. Never has. And it doesn’t seem to work for anyone else either.
HPMOR is about a hyper rationalist atheist living in a magical world. Magic works just fine for him. The important ting isn’t the physics that’s our current best conclusion on how things work, but the empirical method of coming at our conclusions. What do you know, and how do you claim to know it?
What we have are reports and claims of events that people can’t explain. Do you know of any evidence of a such an event that you find convincing and inexplicable? I don’t.
And even if there were such an event, it seems to me a huge epistemological leap to go from “I can’t explain” to “invisible beings are fucking with me through magic”. And an even greater epistemological leap from that to “the Christian narrative is true”.
That’s the point that you haven’t elaborated on.By what evidence or logic do you go from “invisible beings are fucking with me through magic” to “the Christian narrative is true”?
Even if you feel compelled to keep your miracles, you can still drop your cross.
p.s. Shouldn’t Harry be pondering those little notes he gets from the Time Cop a little more?
The original Out Lady of Fatima incident (the miracle of the sun) is still unexplained, and too large to be coincidence. I don’t find it convincing, but it certainly remains evidence in favor of miracles.
Not really. See my comment here
Present accounts of Fatima happenings come from very few, very biased sources. Those sources, for examples, omit the fact that also a portion of people present saw nothing.
Also, account from different witnesses vary a lot from one another.