Why do you think it is that supplements are so much more toxic than food? Eat a dozen oysters, you’ll get 1200% of the RDA of zinc and feel great. Eat 12 zinc pills, and you’ll probably vomit within 5 minutes.
I’d like to test that theory. I’ll be back in five minutes.
If I was betting on it, I would have said within 20 minutes and on an empty stomach. You should get nauseous, at least, but the contents of your stomach might be enough to hold it down.
If I was betting on it, I would have said within 20 minutes and on an empty stomach. You should get nauseous, at least, but the contents of your stomach might be enough to hold it down.
I haven’t eaten anything in 4 hours. I had 12 pills in one swallow each of which apparently has two and a half times the RDI of zinc for males. I haven’t experienced any nausea. If I head eaten a dozen oysters on the other hand I am almost certain I’d have vomited. But that says a lot more about my aversion to oysters than their zinc content.
More generally I can confirm that taking vitamins on an empty stomach most certainly does produce more acute side effects. For example I tried a pharmacological dose of niacin (1g) on an empty stomach and apart from the intense pain and flushing over my entire body I was extremely nauseous and nearly passed out. The same dose with a meal only gives me a mild, almost pleasant tingling sensation—albeit one that lasted longer.
Surprising to me. A single pill of zinc causes nausea in me on an empty stomach. Any chance you were suffering from an acute zinc defiency?
Do you disagree with the hypothesis that food is better than supplements? Potassium is probably the best example as a supplement that can be quite dangerous. Doctors will warn you in fear about taking 100% of the RDA of potassium via supplements without using an extended release pill, but would happily encourage you to drink 4 cans of coconut water.
Surprising to me. A single pill of zinc causes nausea in me on an empty stomach.
I seem to have a fairly strong stomach with respect to anything that doesn’t squick me out.
Any chance you were suffering from an acute zinc defiency?
No, basically not. I’ve been supplementing zinc semi-regularly only because my hair tissue sample put my copper levels at somewhat elevated. Zinc helps with that.
Do you disagree with the hypothesis that food is better than supplements?
Until such time as someone provides a supplement with a sufficiently formula including both macro and micronutrients as well as sufficient filler to delay the digestion to desirable rates, yes. But then I suppose you would just call that “artificial food”.
Potassium is probably the best example as a supplement that can be quite dangerous. Doctors will warn you in fear about taking 100% of the RDA of potassium via supplements without using an extended release pill, but would happily encourage you to drink 4 cans of coconut water.
There are certainly things that really do need to be diluted or, better, taken with food. Given how important potassium balance is in the regulation of cell membranes and whatnot it is not surprising that putting a whole bunch in one place (ie. a tablet) can kill cells! Even 4 cans of water with potassium added would be fine—even though it would probably taste vile.
How did you pick a hair testing lab? It does seem like hair testing should be the best way of testing for zinc, but reportedly there are wide variances between results at different labs, such that mainstream medicine seems to mostly discourage hair testing. Or skeptics can tear into it. http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/hair.html
Just via a doctor. I’m not sure how much I trust it but there was little harm in playing along. I was mostly interested in checking for chronic metal poisoning—which I returned rather excessively positive for (Aluminium).
How much did it cost, were you able to get insurance to pay for it, and if so, how?
Cost $100 if I recall. It’s one of the few medical services I actually had to pay for here (Australia) - it’s not quite mainstream enough to be covered by medicare.
Doctors tell you not to take 100% RDA potassium via supplements, but you go around offering people 70% RDA in the form of 1 tsp KCl? Have you seen any adverse effects?
Green? That’s fascinating. And a little creepy. I usually expect excessive vitamin consumption to produce urine that looks pretty much like berocca—and give or take some urea probably has just about the same mineral concentration. I shall be on the lookout for greenish tinges.
You wrote elsewhere that increased zinc helps with excess copper. If that’s through increased excretion of the copper, it seems like that might contribute...
I asked him about this again and apparently you nailed it. He said he’d been worried that he might have excess copper (he felt tired all the time and had some other symptoms—he had been a vegetarian for a long time) and that’s why he was taking the zinc to begin with. When he saw the green tinge he figured the treatment was working and apparently his symptoms went away at the same time.
There might have been something else going on, I don’t know. It seems at least mildly surprising that you could excrete enough copper to visibly affect urine color.
Interesting thought. I didn’t have the impression that the competition between copper and zinc was quite that vigorous but who knows? I do know that if I had the amount of zinc I had today every day that I’d be guaranteed to wind up with a copper deficiency soon enough (and probably an iron deficiency too) - unless I supplemented with those too to keep a balance.
I’d like to test that theory. I’ll be back in five minutes.
facepalm
If I was betting on it, I would have said within 20 minutes and on an empty stomach. You should get nauseous, at least, but the contents of your stomach might be enough to hold it down.
I haven’t eaten anything in 4 hours. I had 12 pills in one swallow each of which apparently has two and a half times the RDI of zinc for males. I haven’t experienced any nausea. If I head eaten a dozen oysters on the other hand I am almost certain I’d have vomited. But that says a lot more about my aversion to oysters than their zinc content.
More generally I can confirm that taking vitamins on an empty stomach most certainly does produce more acute side effects. For example I tried a pharmacological dose of niacin (1g) on an empty stomach and apart from the intense pain and flushing over my entire body I was extremely nauseous and nearly passed out. The same dose with a meal only gives me a mild, almost pleasant tingling sensation—albeit one that lasted longer.
Now… no more zinc for me for a couple of weeks.
Surprising to me. A single pill of zinc causes nausea in me on an empty stomach. Any chance you were suffering from an acute zinc defiency?
Do you disagree with the hypothesis that food is better than supplements? Potassium is probably the best example as a supplement that can be quite dangerous. Doctors will warn you in fear about taking 100% of the RDA of potassium via supplements without using an extended release pill, but would happily encourage you to drink 4 cans of coconut water.
I seem to have a fairly strong stomach with respect to anything that doesn’t squick me out.
No, basically not. I’ve been supplementing zinc semi-regularly only because my hair tissue sample put my copper levels at somewhat elevated. Zinc helps with that.
Until such time as someone provides a supplement with a sufficiently formula including both macro and micronutrients as well as sufficient filler to delay the digestion to desirable rates, yes. But then I suppose you would just call that “artificial food”.
There are certainly things that really do need to be diluted or, better, taken with food. Given how important potassium balance is in the regulation of cell membranes and whatnot it is not surprising that putting a whole bunch in one place (ie. a tablet) can kill cells! Even 4 cans of water with potassium added would be fine—even though it would probably taste vile.
How did you pick a hair testing lab? It does seem like hair testing should be the best way of testing for zinc, but reportedly there are wide variances between results at different labs, such that mainstream medicine seems to mostly discourage hair testing. Or skeptics can tear into it. http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/hair.html
Just via a doctor. I’m not sure how much I trust it but there was little harm in playing along. I was mostly interested in checking for chronic metal poisoning—which I returned rather excessively positive for (Aluminium).
How much did it cost, were you able to get insurance to pay for it, and if so, how?
Cost $100 if I recall. It’s one of the few medical services I actually had to pay for here (Australia) - it’s not quite mainstream enough to be covered by medicare.
Doctors tell you not to take 100% RDA potassium via supplements, but you go around offering people 70% RDA in the form of 1 tsp KCl? Have you seen any adverse effects?
My friend mentioned having a greenish tinge to his urine after taking high dozes of zinc for some time. Do you observe anything like that?
Green? That’s fascinating. And a little creepy. I usually expect excessive vitamin consumption to produce urine that looks pretty much like berocca—and give or take some urea probably has just about the same mineral concentration. I shall be on the lookout for greenish tinges.
You wrote elsewhere that increased zinc helps with excess copper. If that’s through increased excretion of the copper, it seems like that might contribute...
I asked him about this again and apparently you nailed it. He said he’d been worried that he might have excess copper (he felt tired all the time and had some other symptoms—he had been a vegetarian for a long time) and that’s why he was taking the zinc to begin with. When he saw the green tinge he figured the treatment was working and apparently his symptoms went away at the same time.
There might have been something else going on, I don’t know. It seems at least mildly surprising that you could excrete enough copper to visibly affect urine color.
Interesting thought. I didn’t have the impression that the competition between copper and zinc was quite that vigorous but who knows? I do know that if I had the amount of zinc I had today every day that I’d be guaranteed to wind up with a copper deficiency soon enough (and probably an iron deficiency too) - unless I supplemented with those too to keep a balance.
Pictures or it didn’t happen.