The problem is the knowledge that there does exist an oracle that could answer any question, or the knowledge to create one, if humanity wanted it to (if it was our preference). It pretty much destroys any curiosity.
Right now I enjoy learning new knowledge that is already known because it makes me more knowledgeable than other people. In future, where there is a process like CEV, that is completely unnecessary because the only reason for why people stay stupid is that they want to. Right now there is also the curiosity involved that learning will ultimately lead me into unexplored territory. Under CEV any unexplored territory is unexplored by choice. I also enjoy reading science fiction and thinking about the future, under CEV that’s just stupid.
SPOILER ALERT—The following is a quote from the novel Ventus:
The view was breathtaking. From here, beyond the orbit of Neptune, Axel could see the evidence of humanity’s presence in the form of a faint rainbowed disk of light around the tiny sun. Scattered throughout it were delicate sparkles, each some world-sized Dyson engine or fusion starlette. Earth was just one of a hundred thousand pinpricks of light in that disk. Starlettes lit the coldest regions of the system, and all the planets were ringed with habitats and the conscious, fanatical engines of the solarforming civilization. This was the seat of power for the human race, and for many gods as well. It was ancient, implacably powerful, and in its trillions of inhabitants habored more that was alien than the rest of the galaxy put together.
Axel hated the place.
[...]
If he shut his eyes he could open a link to the outer edge of the inscape, the near-infinite datanet that permeated the Archipelago. He chose not to do this.
[...]
“Isn’t it marvellous?” she said as she came to stand next to him. “I have never been here! Not physically, I mean.” She was dressed in her illusions again, today in a tiny whirlwind of strategically timed leaves: Eve in some medieval painter’s fantasy.
“You haven’t missed much,” he said.
Marya blinked. “How can you say that?” She went to lean on the window, her fingers indenting its resilient surface. “It is everything!”
“That’s what I hate about it.” He shrugged. “I don’t know how people can live here, permanently linked into inscape. All you can ever really learn is that everything you’ve ever done or thought has been done and thought before, only better. The richest billionaire has to realize that the gods next door take no more notice of him than he would a bug. And why go explore the galaxy when anything conceivable can be simulated inside your own head?
The problem is the knowledge that there does exist an oracle that could answer any question, or the knowledge to create one, if humanity wanted it to. It pretty much destroys any curiosity.
This is a rather strong claim—which I believe might quite easily be disproven if we ask fans of novels whether they’re curious about the end of said novels (especially mysteries), even though they have the capacity to flip to the end.
Right now I enjoy learning new knowledge that is already known because it makes me more knowledgeable than other people.
Does that mean that you’d find just as much enjoyment in removing knowledge from the heads of other people?
I also enjoy reading science fiction and thinking about the future, under CEV that’s just stupid.
Is reading Fantasy, and thinking about alternate impossible universe right now “just stupid”? Or studying mythology for that matter?
Is someone playing chess just stupid, because they wouldn’t stand a chance against Kasparov or Deep Blue?
My preferences are a very delicate issue that can be easily disappointed. I can’t change reality so I simply have to live with the fact that nothing can travel faster than light even though I would love to (maybe not, just an example). The same might be true for CEV, it might be the only option. But I would love to see a different future, one with more adventure and struggle, something more akin to Orion’s Arm.
And no, choosing to just forget about the CEV process wouldn’t be what I wanted either. Just imagine an alien came along offering you its help, you’d hardly ask it to leave and make you forget that it does exist.
Is reading Fantasy, and thinking about alternate impossible universe right now “just stupid”? Or studying mythology for that matter?
No, but I personally don’t like fantasy. Science fiction still has some appearance of plausibility, which would be removed under CEV.
Is someone playing chess just stupid, because they wouldn’t stand a chance against Kasparov or Deep Blue?
No, I quite enjoy playing games that I know that I can’t win. But under CEV that would mainly be a result of choice, if humanity wanted it then we would become all equal.
...ask fans of novels whether they’re curious about the end of said novels (especially mysteries), even though they have the capacity to flip to the end.
This seems similar to the argument made by people about death, “every song ends, but is that any reason not to enjoy the music?” And a song ends doesn’t stop me from listening to music, but knowing that my life would end in a week or 10 years would pretty much destroy any fun that I could have in the remaining time. As I said, my preferences seem to be complex and CEV could easily destroy the delicate balance.
It would still be awesome to explore nature and play games of course. But I am pretty sure that people wouldn’t build particle accelerators if they could just “flip to the end” and read about the theory of everything. Or even if they would do so, a lot of the previous excitement, that was result of the possibility to discover something novel, would be gone. After all, nobody writes papers about figuring out the plot of a fiction story and receives a Nobel prize for it.
I don’t think that term means what you think it means. When I try to picture life in a world shaped by CEV, I wind up imagining my new incarnation designing (perhaps as part of a team) visually beautiful ways to harness nearly the full energy of a star.
You seem to assume either that potential knowledge is finite—which technically seems impossible—or else that you could never grow into a mind as smart as the FAI. If the second assumption leads to unhappiness the FAI will discover this fact and try to make sure the premise does not hold.
The problem is the knowledge that there does exist an oracle that could answer any question, or the knowledge to create one, if humanity wanted it to (if it was our preference). It pretty much destroys any curiosity.
Right now I enjoy learning new knowledge that is already known because it makes me more knowledgeable than other people. In future, where there is a process like CEV, that is completely unnecessary because the only reason for why people stay stupid is that they want to. Right now there is also the curiosity involved that learning will ultimately lead me into unexplored territory. Under CEV any unexplored territory is unexplored by choice. I also enjoy reading science fiction and thinking about the future, under CEV that’s just stupid.
SPOILER ALERT—The following is a quote from the novel Ventus:
This is a rather strong claim—which I believe might quite easily be disproven if we ask fans of novels whether they’re curious about the end of said novels (especially mysteries), even though they have the capacity to flip to the end.
Does that mean that you’d find just as much enjoyment in removing knowledge from the heads of other people?
Is reading Fantasy, and thinking about alternate impossible universe right now “just stupid”? Or studying mythology for that matter?
Is someone playing chess just stupid, because they wouldn’t stand a chance against Kasparov or Deep Blue?
Excellent comment. I would add to this:
Is someone playing chess against Deep Blue stupid, because they could just unplug it?
My preferences are a very delicate issue that can be easily disappointed. I can’t change reality so I simply have to live with the fact that nothing can travel faster than light even though I would love to (maybe not, just an example). The same might be true for CEV, it might be the only option. But I would love to see a different future, one with more adventure and struggle, something more akin to Orion’s Arm.
And no, choosing to just forget about the CEV process wouldn’t be what I wanted either. Just imagine an alien came along offering you its help, you’d hardly ask it to leave and make you forget that it does exist.
No, but I personally don’t like fantasy. Science fiction still has some appearance of plausibility, which would be removed under CEV.
No, I quite enjoy playing games that I know that I can’t win. But under CEV that would mainly be a result of choice, if humanity wanted it then we would become all equal.
This seems similar to the argument made by people about death, “every song ends, but is that any reason not to enjoy the music?” And a song ends doesn’t stop me from listening to music, but knowing that my life would end in a week or 10 years would pretty much destroy any fun that I could have in the remaining time. As I said, my preferences seem to be complex and CEV could easily destroy the delicate balance.
It would still be awesome to explore nature and play games of course. But I am pretty sure that people wouldn’t build particle accelerators if they could just “flip to the end” and read about the theory of everything. Or even if they would do so, a lot of the previous excitement, that was result of the possibility to discover something novel, would be gone. After all, nobody writes papers about figuring out the plot of a fiction story and receives a Nobel prize for it.
Created a quick video to highlight how I feel about CEV, “Interesting future vs. CEV”.
I don’t think that term means what you think it means. When I try to picture life in a world shaped by CEV, I wind up imagining my new incarnation designing (perhaps as part of a team) visually beautiful ways to harness nearly the full energy of a star.
You seem to assume either that potential knowledge is finite—which technically seems impossible—or else that you could never grow into a mind as smart as the FAI. If the second assumption leads to unhappiness the FAI will discover this fact and try to make sure the premise does not hold.
Related: Amputation of Destiny