And speaking of someone who finds “earthfic” relatively boring in comparison to works that open strange and wonderful new worlds to me, I can kind of understand both sides of the argument.
Personally, I think no story idea is beyond salvaging by a skilled writer. Some may take more effort than others, but it’s not the genre, it’s how you approach it. I’m curious why science fiction and fantasy acquired the stigma they did—I doubt the ratio of good to bad fiction in these genres was that significantly different from the traditional ones.
That being said, Risto has a valid point about online original fiction. As someone who’s writing a time travel/lesbian romance novel right now, I don’t expect to ever get it published even if I do finish it, and without a connection to an established franchise, I fear people just won’t bother with “more of that doubtful crap on the Internet”.
Yeah, my imminent original fiction series is not bound for trad. pub. If I have enough readers I’ll Lulubook it. I’m hoping to rope in some audience from Luminosity, but I don’t think I’ll be able to keep too many: the series is neither Twilight fanfiction nor especially rationalist-y.
Oh my goodness! Um, yes, MixedNuts is correct that I have Paypal. I will go set up a donation button on my hub site and on Elcenia. I am concerned that there is some kind of legal issue with putting one on Luminosity (that’s also why it doesn’t have any Project Wonderful boxen).
Okay, donation button added to hub site. I’ll make an Elcenia button too but I think I’ll install it when the first chapter goes up tomorrow.
Wait, there is. Ask her for her Paypal account info or something. I owe Alicorn money, anyway; now you mention it I’m going to add… €10 per book times two books is €20.
(BTW, Alicorn, tell me where I should send the money. I promise I’ll pay you soon-ish!)
Edit: Done (both debt and book money), but I messed up and sent her $20 instead of €20.
First of all, as a stand alone piece, that is an elegant way of expressing a point.
Second of all, in context with your other work, that is an EXTREMELY elegant way of expressing a point. You not only included a call back to your previous work, you did it in such a way that the piece stands alone without knowledge of the call back.
Third of all, looking over my sample of half written fiction, I can see plenty of examples of the exact OPPOSITE problem. Variant worlds aplenty, some derivative, some not (Whether they’re actually good or not, I don’t know), but certainly no actual plot or characterization. Almost every single story idea I’ve had is some variant of: “A fantasy world, in which there is level grinding, a love interest, level grinding, a final boss, and did we mention level grinding?” which just fades out over time. They never actually get finished.
But by beginning with “What if the main character wants to get a book published?” You immediately establish interesting characters and novel dialogue seemingly out of nowhere, even though the character’s world isn’t fantastic at all.
If you had advice on writing characters, I would appreciate it and I think it would fit well in a thread discussing writing fiction.
On characterization (note: this is what works for me, not holy writ):
Your characters are going to have bits of you in them. Most likely, you can’t avoid that. But you might be able to make sure they all have different bits, surrounded by parts you make up, and then they won’t seem like clones of each other. (Harriet has my old, old ambitions—I don’t actually have them anymore—to get in on trad. pub., but meanwhile she’s insecure about her earthfic in a way that I’m not about my fanfic, has chosen to study writing and literature in school where I never even sort of wanted to do that, and isn’t good at or interested in worldbuilding.)
They have to talk like people. This doesn’t mean they can never speak in paragraphs, but it does mean that they need voices, should make some forgivable lapses of grammar, deploy appropriate slang, and—except, sometimes, when you write in first person, but even then be careful—not talk like narrators.
Think about the markers by which you know real people. You might be able to sum up parts of it in adjectives, but these are hollow when you think about applying them to humans you care about: consider the funniest person you know, would you just say they’re funny and stop there? That doesn’t come close to capturing anyone’s sense of humor. Your characters shouldn’t just “be funny” (or be nice, or be smart, or be evil) any more than people are just those things without further differentiation. They need to have traits like that in characteristic ways—and these characteristic ways will have gaps. A well-rounded funny character will not make 100% of possible jokes, a well-rounded nice character will have blind spots or bad moods, a well-rounded smart character will have mastery of some mental gymnastics but not others, a well-rounded evil character needs reasons to do things besides just to be evil (although “to signal evil in a dramatic way” can work similarly in many contexts, this won’t cause them to, say, torture kittens in complete privacy!) If you asked me to describe Harriet in adjectives I flat out couldn’t do it, but I can tell you what behaviors and words would and would not be like her.
Characters should want things, need things, like things, dislike things, find things appealing or unappealing, and sometimes be completely neutral about things. These reactions should follow a consistent pattern, but there is room for some idiosyncrasy, especially when two patterns conflict (e.g. do they hate being poor guests more or less than they hate eating eggplant, when they’re served it?) Harriet wrestles with competing desires to get earthfic recognized as a valid medium by the trad. pub. industry, and the desire to get a book between pieces of cardboard on shelves in stores, and she has to make a compromise.
Characters should interact with other characters, and I don’t just mean put them in the same room and stick dialogue in their mouths. They should behave differently around people of different types (familiar or un-, liked or dis-, numerous or single) in different situations. Some people bring out the best in others, other people bring out the worst, and these can be different people in different combinations. By the end of Earthfic you know something about how Harriet relates to her sister and vice-versa, how she met her roommate and why they became friends and how they snark at each other, how Harriet acts in class with a teacher, and how she reacts to reviews of her story from strangers on the Internet. Harriet’s one person, but all these contexts bring out different reactions—she feels (but restrains) the urge to yell at her teacher, yet doesn’t dignify the flaming review with a reply. She’s relentlessly sarcastic with Dawes in a way that she isn’t with Lanie, who in turn gets more personal feelings and details from Harriet than Dawes does. Etc.
Give quirks and dispositions, but don’t put neon signs on them and certainly don’t make them all plot-important. Dawes goes by his last name, but I tuck that info into witty banter and there’s no reason you need to know why he does. Harriet doesn’t like people pestering her about her sister’s stories. The two of them share food without any occurrent exchange of currency and Dawes feels comfortable borrowing Harriet’s books without permission. Lanie’s married, and doesn’t like to go home to an empty house. Harriet attends extracurricular activities like Spanish club. None of this matters—well, Lanie not wanting to go home mattered, but I could have made up any excuse for that—but it helps them be people on the page.
That’s a well done if a bit heavy-handed story. I think it might work slightly better if it were set in a world where earthfic was never socially acceptable rather than a world where it had become unacceptable over time.
Yeah, it’s one of two with a “preachy” warning in the index.
“Socially unacceptable” isn’t quite what I was going for—more “low status”. Making earthfic always have been unpublishable would have had more ripple effect on the world than I wanted to bother with for such a short story.
It might have had a larger ripple effect, but since the story isn’t that long, I don’t think you would need to spend much resources actually thinking about what it would do.
Here, read some original fiction I wrote.
Ah, how delightfully meta. I enjoyed it, Alicorn.
And speaking of someone who finds “earthfic” relatively boring in comparison to works that open strange and wonderful new worlds to me, I can kind of understand both sides of the argument.
Personally, I think no story idea is beyond salvaging by a skilled writer. Some may take more effort than others, but it’s not the genre, it’s how you approach it. I’m curious why science fiction and fantasy acquired the stigma they did—I doubt the ratio of good to bad fiction in these genres was that significantly different from the traditional ones.
That being said, Risto has a valid point about online original fiction. As someone who’s writing a time travel/lesbian romance novel right now, I don’t expect to ever get it published even if I do finish it, and without a connection to an established franchise, I fear people just won’t bother with “more of that doubtful crap on the Internet”.
Yeah, my imminent original fiction series is not bound for trad. pub. If I have enough readers I’ll Lulubook it. I’m hoping to rope in some audience from Luminosity, but I don’t think I’ll be able to keep too many: the series is neither Twilight fanfiction nor especially rationalist-y.
I’d personally welcome if there was a way to pay for your fiction.
Oh my goodness! Um, yes, MixedNuts is correct that I have Paypal. I will go set up a donation button on my hub site and on Elcenia. I am concerned that there is some kind of legal issue with putting one on Luminosity (that’s also why it doesn’t have any Project Wonderful boxen).
Okay, donation button added to hub site. I’ll make an Elcenia button too but I think I’ll install it when the first chapter goes up tomorrow.
Wait, there is. Ask her for her Paypal account info or something. I owe Alicorn money, anyway; now you mention it I’m going to add… €10 per book times two books is €20.
(BTW, Alicorn, tell me where I should send the money. I promise I’ll pay you soon-ish!)
Edit: Done (both debt and book money), but I messed up and sent her $20 instead of €20.
First of all, as a stand alone piece, that is an elegant way of expressing a point.
Second of all, in context with your other work, that is an EXTREMELY elegant way of expressing a point. You not only included a call back to your previous work, you did it in such a way that the piece stands alone without knowledge of the call back.
Third of all, looking over my sample of half written fiction, I can see plenty of examples of the exact OPPOSITE problem. Variant worlds aplenty, some derivative, some not (Whether they’re actually good or not, I don’t know), but certainly no actual plot or characterization. Almost every single story idea I’ve had is some variant of: “A fantasy world, in which there is level grinding, a love interest, level grinding, a final boss, and did we mention level grinding?” which just fades out over time. They never actually get finished.
But by beginning with “What if the main character wants to get a book published?” You immediately establish interesting characters and novel dialogue seemingly out of nowhere, even though the character’s world isn’t fantastic at all.
If you had advice on writing characters, I would appreciate it and I think it would fit well in a thread discussing writing fiction.
On characterization (note: this is what works for me, not holy writ):
Your characters are going to have bits of you in them. Most likely, you can’t avoid that. But you might be able to make sure they all have different bits, surrounded by parts you make up, and then they won’t seem like clones of each other. (Harriet has my old, old ambitions—I don’t actually have them anymore—to get in on trad. pub., but meanwhile she’s insecure about her earthfic in a way that I’m not about my fanfic, has chosen to study writing and literature in school where I never even sort of wanted to do that, and isn’t good at or interested in worldbuilding.)
They have to talk like people. This doesn’t mean they can never speak in paragraphs, but it does mean that they need voices, should make some forgivable lapses of grammar, deploy appropriate slang, and—except, sometimes, when you write in first person, but even then be careful—not talk like narrators.
Think about the markers by which you know real people. You might be able to sum up parts of it in adjectives, but these are hollow when you think about applying them to humans you care about: consider the funniest person you know, would you just say they’re funny and stop there? That doesn’t come close to capturing anyone’s sense of humor. Your characters shouldn’t just “be funny” (or be nice, or be smart, or be evil) any more than people are just those things without further differentiation. They need to have traits like that in characteristic ways—and these characteristic ways will have gaps. A well-rounded funny character will not make 100% of possible jokes, a well-rounded nice character will have blind spots or bad moods, a well-rounded smart character will have mastery of some mental gymnastics but not others, a well-rounded evil character needs reasons to do things besides just to be evil (although “to signal evil in a dramatic way” can work similarly in many contexts, this won’t cause them to, say, torture kittens in complete privacy!) If you asked me to describe Harriet in adjectives I flat out couldn’t do it, but I can tell you what behaviors and words would and would not be like her.
Characters should want things, need things, like things, dislike things, find things appealing or unappealing, and sometimes be completely neutral about things. These reactions should follow a consistent pattern, but there is room for some idiosyncrasy, especially when two patterns conflict (e.g. do they hate being poor guests more or less than they hate eating eggplant, when they’re served it?) Harriet wrestles with competing desires to get earthfic recognized as a valid medium by the trad. pub. industry, and the desire to get a book between pieces of cardboard on shelves in stores, and she has to make a compromise.
Characters should interact with other characters, and I don’t just mean put them in the same room and stick dialogue in their mouths. They should behave differently around people of different types (familiar or un-, liked or dis-, numerous or single) in different situations. Some people bring out the best in others, other people bring out the worst, and these can be different people in different combinations. By the end of Earthfic you know something about how Harriet relates to her sister and vice-versa, how she met her roommate and why they became friends and how they snark at each other, how Harriet acts in class with a teacher, and how she reacts to reviews of her story from strangers on the Internet. Harriet’s one person, but all these contexts bring out different reactions—she feels (but restrains) the urge to yell at her teacher, yet doesn’t dignify the flaming review with a reply. She’s relentlessly sarcastic with Dawes in a way that she isn’t with Lanie, who in turn gets more personal feelings and details from Harriet than Dawes does. Etc.
Give quirks and dispositions, but don’t put neon signs on them and certainly don’t make them all plot-important. Dawes goes by his last name, but I tuck that info into witty banter and there’s no reason you need to know why he does. Harriet doesn’t like people pestering her about her sister’s stories. The two of them share food without any occurrent exchange of currency and Dawes feels comfortable borrowing Harriet’s books without permission. Lanie’s married, and doesn’t like to go home to an empty house. Harriet attends extracurricular activities like Spanish club. None of this matters—well, Lanie not wanting to go home mattered, but I could have made up any excuse for that—but it helps them be people on the page.
That’s a well done if a bit heavy-handed story. I think it might work slightly better if it were set in a world where earthfic was never socially acceptable rather than a world where it had become unacceptable over time.
Yeah, it’s one of two with a “preachy” warning in the index.
“Socially unacceptable” isn’t quite what I was going for—more “low status”. Making earthfic always have been unpublishable would have had more ripple effect on the world than I wanted to bother with for such a short story.
It might have had a larger ripple effect, but since the story isn’t that long, I don’t think you would need to spend much resources actually thinking about what it would do.