If I were to summarize what I think you’re saying, it would be like this:
Rationality on the one hand is a very individualistic path to take. To develop good critical thinking and reasoning skills requires doing a lot of work on your own. After all, rationality requires training the mind. We are, by definition, the only ones who can actually know our own minds. Others can provide guidance, advice, useful concepts, methods, and tricks, but ultimately you will be the primary driving force in improving your own rationality.
That said, the entire reason to be a good rationalist is to be better at being a person—a person who is a part of a community and part of a society. Ultimately there are goals that we’d like to accomplish that will be easier to attain if we are more rational and also if a group of rational individuals works together. Additionally, we’d all like to be happier, and most of human happiness necessitates human companionship and camaraderie.
Of course that all sounds uncontroversial and obvious. Where does the problem lie then? On the one hand, rationality as an individual endeavor seems to encourage individualistic behavior. On the other hand there could also be a slight selection effect going on. We might like the fact that we can develop a sense of self-worth and efficacy that does not immediately require creating strong social bonds. People who are drawn to rationality might be drawn to it because, wherever most people seem to develop their “purpose in life” or find meaning, they didn’t, for whatever reason. I would naively say it was probably because they were introverts. They never developed very strong friendships or groups to be a part of, and turning to rationality allowed them to feel like they had importance despite that and an opportunity to develop. (And an online community where they felt they finally had people to talk to who would understand them.)
What that means is that we have a lot of people with individualist personalities who are developing themselves in a way that is primarily an individual endeavor. That sort of makes trying to have well-organized group projects a bit of a challenge. I think if you’re arguing that we should encourage people to develop their social skills, I wouldn’t be opposed to that at all. I think the only sort of challenge you’ll get from taking that route is how to do it without compromising qualities that make us rational (for example, how do we prevent social pressures that encourage irrationality from taking hold).
I think that it is a mistake to treat “individualism” (or “introversion”) as a 1-place word. And that it is critical for the rationalist community to understand this.
How you feel among other people, and how you interact with them, that depends not only on you, but also on those other people. To quote a friend: “I thought I was introverted, but I guess I just never met the right kind of people before.”
To provide an analogy with computer programming, imagine that you are the best programmer at your high school. Your classmates can barely produce code that runs, you develop applications for fun in your free time. It will make sense for you to ignore your classmates in this area, because you have nothing to learn from them. -- But a decade later, when you get your first programming job, the situation is different: your colleagues are good at their work (not necessarily all of them), and there are even more smart people outside, so you have to learn using google and StackExchange, etc. If you remain stuck in the “I have to do everything alone, because everyone else is incompetent” mindset, you will soon find yourself outcompeted. The strategy that worked for you once, doesn’t work anymore; it’s time to update and get new skills.
I think this is what happens to many smart people in mostly stupid society. They learn, during childhood, that the best strategy is to think for themselves, try to do things alone, never rely on anyone, etc. It is a strategy that works well in a certain context. But when the context changes, many of them are unable to change the strategy accordingly. -- Mensa is an archetypal example, but many of us are not much better. Too focused on signalling superiority to environment, we fail to notice an opportunity to actually cooperate. Which actually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because… well, if the other person refuses to cooperate with you (working under the common “knowledge” that cooperation between you is impossible), then indeed, the cooperation between you becomes impossible. But only because it requires two people to change their strategy at the same time, something that probably neither of them did before, and neither of them has any practice at doing… yeah, it can be difficult, especially on the emotional level, and concluding that “it’s impossible (and unnecessary) anyway” is the convenient way out.
Your “individualism” is partially how your environment has made you. It is not the only way things could be. Now it’s time for you (us) to start making your (our) own environment.
What that means is that we have a lot of people with individualist personalities who are developing themselves in a way that is primarily an individual endeavor.
The term gamification has been bandied about a lot to the point of uselessness, but it seems this community benefits directly from such re-framings. Individual endeavours could be considered Level 1.
That sort of makes trying to have well-organized group projects a bit of a challenge. I think if you’re arguing that we should encourage people to develop their social skills, I wouldn’t be opposed to that at all. I think the only sort of challenge you’ll get from taking that route is how to do it without compromising qualities that make us rational (for example, how do we prevent social pressures that encourage irrationality from taking hold).
Level 2 (or 1000, since it seems rather difficult). The trick is to somehow provide “HOWTOs”. Lesswrong speedruns (sic) consist of a hodgepodge of absorbing the Sequences, HPMoR, SSC and this site, depending on how far back one wants to go.
If I were to summarize what I think you’re saying, it would be like this:
Rationality on the one hand is a very individualistic path to take. To develop good critical thinking and reasoning skills requires doing a lot of work on your own. After all, rationality requires training the mind. We are, by definition, the only ones who can actually know our own minds. Others can provide guidance, advice, useful concepts, methods, and tricks, but ultimately you will be the primary driving force in improving your own rationality.
That said, the entire reason to be a good rationalist is to be better at being a person—a person who is a part of a community and part of a society. Ultimately there are goals that we’d like to accomplish that will be easier to attain if we are more rational and also if a group of rational individuals works together. Additionally, we’d all like to be happier, and most of human happiness necessitates human companionship and camaraderie.
Of course that all sounds uncontroversial and obvious. Where does the problem lie then? On the one hand, rationality as an individual endeavor seems to encourage individualistic behavior. On the other hand there could also be a slight selection effect going on. We might like the fact that we can develop a sense of self-worth and efficacy that does not immediately require creating strong social bonds. People who are drawn to rationality might be drawn to it because, wherever most people seem to develop their “purpose in life” or find meaning, they didn’t, for whatever reason. I would naively say it was probably because they were introverts. They never developed very strong friendships or groups to be a part of, and turning to rationality allowed them to feel like they had importance despite that and an opportunity to develop. (And an online community where they felt they finally had people to talk to who would understand them.)
What that means is that we have a lot of people with individualist personalities who are developing themselves in a way that is primarily an individual endeavor. That sort of makes trying to have well-organized group projects a bit of a challenge. I think if you’re arguing that we should encourage people to develop their social skills, I wouldn’t be opposed to that at all. I think the only sort of challenge you’ll get from taking that route is how to do it without compromising qualities that make us rational (for example, how do we prevent social pressures that encourage irrationality from taking hold).
I think that it is a mistake to treat “individualism” (or “introversion”) as a 1-place word. And that it is critical for the rationalist community to understand this.
How you feel among other people, and how you interact with them, that depends not only on you, but also on those other people. To quote a friend: “I thought I was introverted, but I guess I just never met the right kind of people before.”
To provide an analogy with computer programming, imagine that you are the best programmer at your high school. Your classmates can barely produce code that runs, you develop applications for fun in your free time. It will make sense for you to ignore your classmates in this area, because you have nothing to learn from them. -- But a decade later, when you get your first programming job, the situation is different: your colleagues are good at their work (not necessarily all of them), and there are even more smart people outside, so you have to learn using google and StackExchange, etc. If you remain stuck in the “I have to do everything alone, because everyone else is incompetent” mindset, you will soon find yourself outcompeted. The strategy that worked for you once, doesn’t work anymore; it’s time to update and get new skills.
I think this is what happens to many smart people in mostly stupid society. They learn, during childhood, that the best strategy is to think for themselves, try to do things alone, never rely on anyone, etc. It is a strategy that works well in a certain context. But when the context changes, many of them are unable to change the strategy accordingly. -- Mensa is an archetypal example, but many of us are not much better. Too focused on signalling superiority to environment, we fail to notice an opportunity to actually cooperate. Which actually becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because… well, if the other person refuses to cooperate with you (working under the common “knowledge” that cooperation between you is impossible), then indeed, the cooperation between you becomes impossible. But only because it requires two people to change their strategy at the same time, something that probably neither of them did before, and neither of them has any practice at doing… yeah, it can be difficult, especially on the emotional level, and concluding that “it’s impossible (and unnecessary) anyway” is the convenient way out.
Your “individualism” is partially how your environment has made you. It is not the only way things could be. Now it’s time for you (us) to start making your (our) own environment.
This is obvious in hindsight and I thank you for bringing it up.
The term gamification has been bandied about a lot to the point of uselessness, but it seems this community benefits directly from such re-framings. Individual endeavours could be considered Level 1.
Level 2 (or 1000, since it seems rather difficult). The trick is to somehow provide “HOWTOs”. Lesswrong speedruns (sic) consist of a hodgepodge of absorbing the Sequences, HPMoR, SSC and this site, depending on how far back one wants to go.