I like studies and think they are useful. I think EAs are motivated to do good and are motivated to believe that money will solve problems that are further away when they know that it does not solve them close to home.
Also, I think it is impossible to measure certain metrics. For instance, in Africa group interdependence is extremely important. Everyone helps everyone. It is known as Ubuntu in Southern Africa but is common throughout sub-Saharan Africa
Cash injections from outsiders harm this. But how could you possibly measure it? How could you measure the interdependency of a community? How could you measure the harm done to that critical interdependency?
Capitalist societies thrive on, even require, mobility—social, economic, geographical. They require risk-taking and creative destruction. They require greed (or at least the desire to maximize something).
Interdependent societies of the Sub-Saharan Africa type provide some safety and support, but they pay for it with stagnation. They provide less degrees of freedom, less tolerance of the weird and the unusual, less capability to absorb (or generate) social and economic shocks.
A web of ties to others supports you, but it also binds you.
EAs focus on eliminating (or mitigating) suffering. The devil is in the definition of suffering.
You would have to change the entire culture of the continent to change their version of interdependence. This is a massive change. African culture has proven to be rather persistent so you would have an uphill battle. Is it possible that the imposition of a capitalist culture might create more suffering (from the African perspective) than relief?
I’m a capitalist. But I was born in a capitalist society and reared by those who shoved me out of the nest to encourage my ability to fly. Imposition of a very different culture on Africa could be tantamount to shoving a flightless bird from the nest at the top of the tree then referring to the resulting splat on the ground as creative destruction. One man’s creative destruction is another man’s disaster. Who gets to decide?
From our perspective a government official who helps his family while being in the role of being a burocrat is corrupt. From the African practice his actions are commandable because he’s practicing ubuntu.
The amount of that kind of interdependence in Western society isn’t zero but it’s a lot less than it’s in Africa.
Western society needs the prime loyality of a burocrat to be to the state. It needs the prime loyality of an employee in his role as employee to his company.
Why do you think that GiveDirectly style donations hurt this? What kind of real world effect to do expect to see in a world where it hurts it compared to a possible world where it doesn’t hurt?
Do you believe anecdotal evidence is generally superior to systematic evidence gathered in studies?
Even if that’s what you believe, why do you believe taht people who believe the opposite, do so because of signaling concerns?
I like studies and think they are useful. I think EAs are motivated to do good and are motivated to believe that money will solve problems that are further away when they know that it does not solve them close to home.
Also, I think it is impossible to measure certain metrics. For instance, in Africa group interdependence is extremely important. Everyone helps everyone. It is known as Ubuntu in Southern Africa but is common throughout sub-Saharan Africa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28philosophy%29
Cash injections from outsiders harm this. But how could you possibly measure it? How could you measure the interdependency of a community? How could you measure the harm done to that critical interdependency?
It’s not obvious that this interdependency is a good thing. It’s characteristic of pre-capitalist societies.
How are capitalistic societies not interdependent?
Capitalist societies thrive on, even require, mobility—social, economic, geographical. They require risk-taking and creative destruction. They require greed (or at least the desire to maximize something).
Interdependent societies of the Sub-Saharan Africa type provide some safety and support, but they pay for it with stagnation. They provide less degrees of freedom, less tolerance of the weird and the unusual, less capability to absorb (or generate) social and economic shocks.
A web of ties to others supports you, but it also binds you.
Spot on analysis.
EAs focus on eliminating (or mitigating) suffering. The devil is in the definition of suffering.
You would have to change the entire culture of the continent to change their version of interdependence. This is a massive change. African culture has proven to be rather persistent so you would have an uphill battle. Is it possible that the imposition of a capitalist culture might create more suffering (from the African perspective) than relief?
I’m a capitalist. But I was born in a capitalist society and reared by those who shoved me out of the nest to encourage my ability to fly. Imposition of a very different culture on Africa could be tantamount to shoving a flightless bird from the nest at the top of the tree then referring to the resulting splat on the ground as creative destruction. One man’s creative destruction is another man’s disaster. Who gets to decide?
A flightless bird at the top of a tree is screwed, anyway :-/
If you’re interested in the topic, I believe it was extensively discussed with respect to post-Soviet Russia.
Spit my tea on the keyboard.
From our perspective a government official who helps his family while being in the role of being a burocrat is corrupt. From the African practice his actions are commandable because he’s practicing ubuntu.
The amount of that kind of interdependence in Western society isn’t zero but it’s a lot less than it’s in Africa. Western society needs the prime loyality of a burocrat to be to the state. It needs the prime loyality of an employee in his role as employee to his company.
Why do you think that GiveDirectly style donations hurt this? What kind of real world effect to do expect to see in a world where it hurts it compared to a possible world where it doesn’t hurt?