Perhaps I came across as too adversarial. I totally agree that Objectivism is wrong and useless and if implemented widely would be very bad. The point I was trying to convey is that in practice, neither Ayn Rand nor Objectivists have acted especially Slytherin.
Oh. I apologize and admit to my mistake: unlike the better sort of Slytherin their mentality isn’t exactly Machiavellian, though it is take-no-prisoners in its own, different way. I’d still like to hear a more detailed study of the difference between the two, for the sake of moral clarity (heh) since in my dislike for them I have unwisely lumped them together, which is a mistake, which needs to be corrected.
As a desperate save for the sake of fanfictionish silliness, I’d add that the same way conservatism has turned out very different in the USA and the UK, it’s fairly plausible that the USA offshots of the House Of Slytherin may have developed differently from their continental peers. You wouldn’t know of any fanfic that properly explored Potterverse Magical America, would you?
Heh, I somehow only read your first sentence when I responded. I was basing my comment off of my own experience with rand as a teenager and friends who influenced by Objectivism. I don’t know of an analysis of the two and I don’t read much fiction.
I read the presently existing part of MoR. I could read Shinji 40K. Why do you think it’s worthwhile? Should I read or watch Neon Genesis Evangelion first?
Hm, reading the original EVA is not compulsory, the story stands very well on its own… but since you ask, I heartily recommend you watch EVA and Gurren Lagann. They are both flawed, but they are still very good, and very memorable.
The story isn’t working for me. A boy or novice soldier, depending on how you define it, is inexplicably given the job of running a huge and difficult-to-use robot to fight with a sequence of powerful similarly huge aliens while trying not to do too much collateral damage to Tokyo in the process. In the original, I gather he was an unhappy boy. In this story, he’s a relatively well-adjusted boy who hallucinates conversations with his Warhammer figurines. I don’t see why I should care about this scenario or any similar scenarios, but maybe I’m missing something.
Can someone who read this or watched the original say something interesting that happens in it? Wikipedia mentions profound philosophical questions about the nature of reality, but it also mentions that the ending is widely regarded as incomprehensible. The quote about how every possible statement sounds profound if you get the rhetoric right seems to apply here. I don’t want to invest multiple hours to end up reading (or watching) some pseudo-profound nonsense.
It’s not pseudo profound, but, like The Matrix, it has a lot of window-dressing and pomous wanking around absolutely legitimate questions. It’s also frustrating in that many of the questions are asked, but few are resolved. And they’re mainly a framework for the character arcs to develop. Eva has a very simple plot, which it doses very carefully in order to make it more interesting, so that it comes off as a Jigsaw puzzle. The most interesting thing is how the characters evolve and… really, I don’t want to spoil anything, but you should definitely give it a try: it’s a character story where the characters are extremely human, layered, and rich, and their stories are extremely poignantes.
If you don’t want to watch the original, all I can tell you is, the “inexplicable” turns out to be “not explained yet”. Everything will be revealed in due time. As for why it is interesting… well, if you watch EVA, and especially the final movie, The End Of Evangelion, you might identify a lot with Shinji, put a lot of yourself into him. This is especially true if you watch it as a teenager of the same age. And then… well, stuff happens to him, and to you, by proxy. Seeing him well-adjusted, happy, strong, while still having the same fundamental character traits… it’s a very intense feeling.
You watched EoE without watching the series first? Instead you watched “Death And Rebirth”?
...
That’s probably the wrongest possible way to do it. It’s like watching 2001 a Space Odyssey starting from when Dave gets on the pod and into the Jupiter monolith. Like, there’s no point to EoE if you aren’t already very familiar with the characters AND very very invested in them and the plot.
Perhaps I came across as too adversarial. I totally agree that Objectivism is wrong and useless and if implemented widely would be very bad. The point I was trying to convey is that in practice, neither Ayn Rand nor Objectivists have acted especially Slytherin.
Unfortunately, your link is broken.
Oh. I apologize and admit to my mistake: unlike the better sort of Slytherin their mentality isn’t exactly Machiavellian, though it is take-no-prisoners in its own, different way. I’d still like to hear a more detailed study of the difference between the two, for the sake of moral clarity (heh) since in my dislike for them I have unwisely lumped them together, which is a mistake, which needs to be corrected.
As a desperate save for the sake of fanfictionish silliness, I’d add that the same way conservatism has turned out very different in the USA and the UK, it’s fairly plausible that the USA offshots of the House Of Slytherin may have developed differently from their continental peers. You wouldn’t know of any fanfic that properly explored Potterverse Magical America, would you?
...Now I’m really far off-topic.
Heh, I somehow only read your first sentence when I responded. I was basing my comment off of my own experience with rand as a teenager and friends who influenced by Objectivism. I don’t know of an analysis of the two and I don’t read much fiction.
Please tell me you’ve at least read Methods Of Rationality and Shinji and Warhammer 40K.
I’ve read MoR and started Shinji.
I hope you enjoy the ride.
I read the presently existing part of MoR. I could read Shinji 40K. Why do you think it’s worthwhile? Should I read or watch Neon Genesis Evangelion first?
Hm, reading the original EVA is not compulsory, the story stands very well on its own… but since you ask, I heartily recommend you watch EVA and Gurren Lagann. They are both flawed, but they are still very good, and very memorable.
The story isn’t working for me. A boy or novice soldier, depending on how you define it, is inexplicably given the job of running a huge and difficult-to-use robot to fight with a sequence of powerful similarly huge aliens while trying not to do too much collateral damage to Tokyo in the process. In the original, I gather he was an unhappy boy. In this story, he’s a relatively well-adjusted boy who hallucinates conversations with his Warhammer figurines. I don’t see why I should care about this scenario or any similar scenarios, but maybe I’m missing something.
Can someone who read this or watched the original say something interesting that happens in it? Wikipedia mentions profound philosophical questions about the nature of reality, but it also mentions that the ending is widely regarded as incomprehensible. The quote about how every possible statement sounds profound if you get the rhetoric right seems to apply here. I don’t want to invest multiple hours to end up reading (or watching) some pseudo-profound nonsense.
It’s not pseudo profound, but, like The Matrix, it has a lot of window-dressing and pomous wanking around absolutely legitimate questions. It’s also frustrating in that many of the questions are asked, but few are resolved. And they’re mainly a framework for the character arcs to develop. Eva has a very simple plot, which it doses very carefully in order to make it more interesting, so that it comes off as a Jigsaw puzzle. The most interesting thing is how the characters evolve and… really, I don’t want to spoil anything, but you should definitely give it a try: it’s a character story where the characters are extremely human, layered, and rich, and their stories are extremely poignantes.
If you don’t want to watch the original, all I can tell you is, the “inexplicable” turns out to be “not explained yet”. Everything will be revealed in due time. As for why it is interesting… well, if you watch EVA, and especially the final movie, The End Of Evangelion, you might identify a lot with Shinji, put a lot of yourself into him. This is especially true if you watch it as a teenager of the same age. And then… well, stuff happens to him, and to you, by proxy. Seeing him well-adjusted, happy, strong, while still having the same fundamental character traits… it’s a very intense feeling.
Okay, I watched End of Evangelion and a variety of the materials leading up to it. I want my time back. I don’t recommend it.
You watched EoE without watching the series first? Instead you watched “Death And Rebirth”?
...
That’s probably the wrongest possible way to do it. It’s like watching 2001 a Space Odyssey starting from when Dave gets on the pod and into the Jupiter monolith. Like, there’s no point to EoE if you aren’t already very familiar with the characters AND very very invested in them and the plot.
Sure.