It’s definitely the case that many people do (and also definitely the case that many people don’t!).
My evidence is:
My own personal experience
Explicit conversations about the shoulder advisor concept, including phenomenological reports of what it’s like, with a large number of people including Eliezer Yudkowsky, Nate Soares, Damon Pourtahmaseb-Sasi, Renshin Lee, Eli Tyre, Logan Brienne Strohl, Malo Bourgon, Jack Carroll, and Eric Zolayvar.
Instances in fiction and pop culture (the angel-and-devil trope, HJPEV’s cast of mental models in HPMOR, Bella seeing Edward in Twilight, a lot of references to “hearing someone else’s voice at a critical moment” or “an image of someone’s face popping to mind” in any number of works)
Some pop-evo-psych and bicameral mind stuff that sort of post-dicts it
I started developing (and sharing) my explicit concepts of shoulder advisors well after encountering the stuff about some people not having visual imagery, or some people not having inner monologues, or some people not having a persistent sense of self across time, or Scott Alexander’s “Different Worlds,” and so forth. Like, from the start I’ve been quite aware of the fact that this won’t be universal. But in my probing, a) something like half the people I talk to resonate with this from the start/already have similar experiences or habits, and b) of the remaining half, a majority take to it pretty quickly/can pick up a nascent version of the skill in five minutes.
That, of course, in no way invalidates the possibly-as-many-as-25-percent-of-people whose minds are simply running a different OS.
It happened relatively organically in a board-game round. Discussion moved to how to deal with politics at the job, and you have to anticipate people’s reactions, and I said that it happens in management all the time. And I think I asked: “How do you do that?” and as a follow-up question: “Do you have some kind of inner monologue?”
With my kids, I didn’t assume familiarity with such a concept and used a situation they are familiar with. A setup like: “You have a lot of friends and tell them a joke, can you tell how they will react? What happens in your brain/mind when you do that?” And as follow-ups: “Can you imagine your friend saying that?” “Can you hear what tone he uses or what emotions he shows?” (We have talked about mental imagery often before so I know they are familiar with that)
While it was not intentional with the adults I prefer this pattern. Kids (at least mine) often don’t like direct questions but will happily tag along if my topic relates to their situation. It also avoids leading questions. And if I offer answer options I provide a wide variety of alternatives with cues that there could be more.
So my proposal is to describe a situation where modeling another person is a natural choice. And then ask “How do you do that (in your mind)?” and only in follow-up questions ask for inner mono/dialogue or mental imagery.
Thank you for sharing your epistemic status. I think this and other questions regarding consciousness deserve more study. It is relevant for AI research, on LW see e.g. Nonperson predicates. This was also mentioned by Sam Altman in the recent meetup. I intend to write a post on some testable predictions about consciousness and I hope to get some into the next SSC/ACX survey.
It’s definitely the case that many people do (and also definitely the case that many people don’t!).
My evidence is:
My own personal experience
Explicit conversations about the shoulder advisor concept, including phenomenological reports of what it’s like, with a large number of people including Eliezer Yudkowsky, Nate Soares, Damon Pourtahmaseb-Sasi, Renshin Lee, Eli Tyre, Logan Brienne Strohl, Malo Bourgon, Jack Carroll, and Eric Zolayvar.
Instances in fiction and pop culture (the angel-and-devil trope, HJPEV’s cast of mental models in HPMOR, Bella seeing Edward in Twilight, a lot of references to “hearing someone else’s voice at a critical moment” or “an image of someone’s face popping to mind” in any number of works)
Some pop-evo-psych and bicameral mind stuff that sort of post-dicts it
I started developing (and sharing) my explicit concepts of shoulder advisors well after encountering the stuff about some people not having visual imagery, or some people not having inner monologues, or some people not having a persistent sense of self across time, or Scott Alexander’s “Different Worlds,” and so forth. Like, from the start I’ve been quite aware of the fact that this won’t be universal. But in my probing, a) something like half the people I talk to resonate with this from the start/already have similar experiences or habits, and b) of the remaining half, a majority take to it pretty quickly/can pick up a nascent version of the skill in five minutes.
That, of course, in no way invalidates the possibly-as-many-as-25-percent-of-people whose minds are simply running a different OS.
Update: I polled some people and for what it’s worth this is the result:
has dialogs and trialogues, that are different shards of their personality and chime in often unasked (but not like an advisor)
can easily emulate other people and how they will react and what they would say (it sounded more like in the form of conceptese)
can easily visualize other people and what they would say (it sounded more like in a video recording with lower person fidelity)
has minimal inner monologue, but can bring up limited shoulder advisors (me)
has almost no inner monologue
has no inner monologue, aspects of their personality take control unasked and without negotiation
has no inner monologue and is skeptical such a thing exists at all
Kids’ answers (ages 10 to 15):
I construct the other person from parts and can imagine what they would say but not how they would look.
I can easily imagine what other persons would say.
The better I know another person the better I know what they would say or do (it sounded less like an imagined person and more like ‘just knowing’).
Can you share something about the wording of your question/prompt? I might want to ask other people using the same prompt for consistency.
It happened relatively organically in a board-game round. Discussion moved to how to deal with politics at the job, and you have to anticipate people’s reactions, and I said that it happens in management all the time. And I think I asked: “How do you do that?” and as a follow-up question: “Do you have some kind of inner monologue?”
With my kids, I didn’t assume familiarity with such a concept and used a situation they are familiar with. A setup like: “You have a lot of friends and tell them a joke, can you tell how they will react? What happens in your brain/mind when you do that?” And as follow-ups: “Can you imagine your friend saying that?” “Can you hear what tone he uses or what emotions he shows?” (We have talked about mental imagery often before so I know they are familiar with that)
While it was not intentional with the adults I prefer this pattern. Kids (at least mine) often don’t like direct questions but will happily tag along if my topic relates to their situation. It also avoids leading questions. And if I offer answer options I provide a wide variety of alternatives with cues that there could be more.
So my proposal is to describe a situation where modeling another person is a natural choice. And then ask “How do you do that (in your mind)?” and only in follow-up questions ask for inner mono/dialogue or mental imagery.
Thank you for sharing your epistemic status. I think this and other questions regarding consciousness deserve more study. It is relevant for AI research, on LW see e.g. Nonperson predicates. This was also mentioned by Sam Altman in the recent meetup. I intend to write a post on some testable predictions about consciousness and I hope to get some into the next SSC/ACX survey.