“it’s deeply emotionally and morally charged for one side in a conversation, and often a vague irritant to the other.”
Very true, as a vegan I find non-vegans can become highly emotionally volatile when they want to talk about why I want to do what I’m doing, and it gets pretty irritating.
When I was vegetarian (for complicated digestive reasons) I met omnivores who were deeply invested in my choice and demanded a bunch of justification and emotional management around it, and it was super irritating. I just wanted to eat my peas in peace. To the extent that’s what’s happening to you: I’m sorry, yeah, that sucks. People feeling entitled to have your diet meet their standards is bad in all forms.
I have a theory about this. It’s because diet, in particular above literally everything else, is extremely core to who a person is. In fact, diet encapsulates culture to a large degree. The ethical problem of killing animals is obvious to literally every person though. So when you say you are vegan or vegetarian, it is implied that you are saying you have absolved yourself from a near universal ethical problem, and you are directly attacking the culture and identity of the person and identifying yourself as a superior human. Even if you have no tinge of that in your mind (which I think is highly unlikely for someone who is freely choosing the switch to vegetarianism based on animal welfare or optimizing personal health — making the switch by force due to health problems is different, but people will always assume the former reason). So a vegetarian is quite literally attacking another person by identifying themselves as such… at least that is how the other non-vegetarian person takes it. So it’s natural they have the strongly negative reaction. Vegetarians and especially vegans are the odd man out here. They are the unusual people bucking established human behavior of hundreds of thousands of years. Being able to reject food is a new development for the most part.
Note that I’ve been vegetarian for about 3 decades and still am.
I very much appreciate this article and strongly agree with most of it. It’s almost certainly optimal for most people to eat a plant-forward whole foods (minimally or at least freshly processed) diet, but that will not be true for everyone, especially those with rare digestive or autoimmune conditions.
I might add one point though: it could be the case that dietary needs and tolerances are strongly connected to early life experience and conditioning. For example consider that the prevalence of peanut allergies might actually be caused to some degree by people avoiding giving their children peanuts. When a human body learns that it gets what it needs from certain inputs, retraining may become impossible if not extremely difficult. And sensitivities can develop (or go away) due to life experience. I’ve had my dietary sensitivities change over time, personally. Of course, I’m just going off of my own experience of those sensitivities and not on researchers studying them.
So if any arbitrary human were raised on a plant-based, whole-foods diet, say incorporating ferments and seaweeds, etc. to get even B12, or at least dairy products, then they would be fine for the most part. Their body would learn how to extract the necessary nutrition.
My point is that it might not just be genetics that, for an adult, determines what their current optimal diet is. It might be the case that their optimal diet would be different if they were raised on a different diet. Of course, there are always trade-offs. In this imaginary world, it is almost certainly that a unique person would eventually come into being who has problems with the established diet and needs to begin eating animal flesh in order to establish optimal health. I would bet such an occurrence would be rare though, but of course I don’t know for sure. Having the entire culture veg reverses most of the economic concerns though. The reverse economic situation arises, where eating meat has added cost.
It’s standard that the morally charged side in a veganism conversation is from people who argue for veganism. Your response reads as snarky, since you pretend to have understood the contrary. You’re illustrating op’s point, that certain vegans are emotionally attached to their cause and jump to the occasion to defend their tribe. If you disagree to being pictured a certain way, at least act so it isn’t accurate to depict you that way.
Honestly, I have seen intense emotional responses on both sides. While yes, nearly all vegans are emotionally invested (because we made a conscious choice based on sincere beliefs to change daily habits, so we clearly cared), I’ve been surprised at the intensity of emotional reactions I have seen in omni people when they realise someone is vegan, even if the vegan does literally nothing beyond personally refraining from eating animal products. I’ve had people get genuinely angry at me and give unprompted and ludicrous lectures about plant sentience when they realised I wasn’t eating the meat, or give long and comprehensive histories of why they can’t go vegan, when I never asked. Similar to turning down cake at a party, and realising the person next to me suddenly feels a strong need to justify their cake consumption to me, when I really do not give a shit whether she eats cake or whether she had breakfast and how long she worked out today, but apparently, she really needs me to know now. Food is just a really emotional topic. I remember being a teenager, and being asked to sign some bizarre petition at my vets to get our government to put pressure on China to stop people from eating dogs. And I said why, I eat pigs, they are equally sentient, seems hypocritical to me, I’m not signing that. The next ten min, I thought I was going to get literally quartered by the (equally pig eating) dog owners in the waiting room. Because I refused to condemn other people for the animals they were eating. It was surreal.
I focused my answer on the morally charged side, not emotional. The quoted statement said A and B so as long as B is mostly true for vegans, A and B is mostly true for (a sub-group) of vegans.
I’d agree with the characterization “it’s deeply emotionally and morally charged for one side in a conversation, and often emotional to the other.” because most people don’t have small identities and do feel attacked by others behaving differently indeed.
“it’s deeply emotionally and morally charged for one side in a conversation, and often a vague irritant to the other.”
Very true, as a vegan I find non-vegans can become highly emotionally volatile when they want to talk about why I want to do what I’m doing, and it gets pretty irritating.
When I was vegetarian (for complicated digestive reasons) I met omnivores who were deeply invested in my choice and demanded a bunch of justification and emotional management around it, and it was super irritating. I just wanted to eat my peas in peace. To the extent that’s what’s happening to you: I’m sorry, yeah, that sucks. People feeling entitled to have your diet meet their standards is bad in all forms.
I have a theory about this. It’s because diet, in particular above literally everything else, is extremely core to who a person is. In fact, diet encapsulates culture to a large degree. The ethical problem of killing animals is obvious to literally every person though. So when you say you are vegan or vegetarian, it is implied that you are saying you have absolved yourself from a near universal ethical problem, and you are directly attacking the culture and identity of the person and identifying yourself as a superior human. Even if you have no tinge of that in your mind (which I think is highly unlikely for someone who is freely choosing the switch to vegetarianism based on animal welfare or optimizing personal health — making the switch by force due to health problems is different, but people will always assume the former reason). So a vegetarian is quite literally attacking another person by identifying themselves as such… at least that is how the other non-vegetarian person takes it. So it’s natural they have the strongly negative reaction. Vegetarians and especially vegans are the odd man out here. They are the unusual people bucking established human behavior of hundreds of thousands of years. Being able to reject food is a new development for the most part.
Note that I’ve been vegetarian for about 3 decades and still am.
I very much appreciate this article and strongly agree with most of it. It’s almost certainly optimal for most people to eat a plant-forward whole foods (minimally or at least freshly processed) diet, but that will not be true for everyone, especially those with rare digestive or autoimmune conditions.
I might add one point though: it could be the case that dietary needs and tolerances are strongly connected to early life experience and conditioning. For example consider that the prevalence of peanut allergies might actually be caused to some degree by people avoiding giving their children peanuts. When a human body learns that it gets what it needs from certain inputs, retraining may become impossible if not extremely difficult. And sensitivities can develop (or go away) due to life experience. I’ve had my dietary sensitivities change over time, personally. Of course, I’m just going off of my own experience of those sensitivities and not on researchers studying them.
So if any arbitrary human were raised on a plant-based, whole-foods diet, say incorporating ferments and seaweeds, etc. to get even B12, or at least dairy products, then they would be fine for the most part. Their body would learn how to extract the necessary nutrition.
My point is that it might not just be genetics that, for an adult, determines what their current optimal diet is. It might be the case that their optimal diet would be different if they were raised on a different diet. Of course, there are always trade-offs. In this imaginary world, it is almost certainly that a unique person would eventually come into being who has problems with the established diet and needs to begin eating animal flesh in order to establish optimal health. I would bet such an occurrence would be rare though, but of course I don’t know for sure. Having the entire culture veg reverses most of the economic concerns though. The reverse economic situation arises, where eating meat has added cost.
It’s standard that the morally charged side in a veganism conversation is from people who argue for veganism.
Your response reads as snarky, since you pretend to have understood the contrary. You’re illustrating op’s point, that certain vegans are emotionally attached to their cause and jump to the occasion to defend their tribe. If you disagree to being pictured a certain way, at least act so it isn’t accurate to depict you that way.
Honestly, I have seen intense emotional responses on both sides. While yes, nearly all vegans are emotionally invested (because we made a conscious choice based on sincere beliefs to change daily habits, so we clearly cared), I’ve been surprised at the intensity of emotional reactions I have seen in omni people when they realise someone is vegan, even if the vegan does literally nothing beyond personally refraining from eating animal products. I’ve had people get genuinely angry at me and give unprompted and ludicrous lectures about plant sentience when they realised I wasn’t eating the meat, or give long and comprehensive histories of why they can’t go vegan, when I never asked. Similar to turning down cake at a party, and realising the person next to me suddenly feels a strong need to justify their cake consumption to me, when I really do not give a shit whether she eats cake or whether she had breakfast and how long she worked out today, but apparently, she really needs me to know now. Food is just a really emotional topic. I remember being a teenager, and being asked to sign some bizarre petition at my vets to get our government to put pressure on China to stop people from eating dogs. And I said why, I eat pigs, they are equally sentient, seems hypocritical to me, I’m not signing that. The next ten min, I thought I was going to get literally quartered by the (equally pig eating) dog owners in the waiting room. Because I refused to condemn other people for the animals they were eating. It was surreal.
I focused my answer on the morally charged side, not emotional. The quoted statement said A and B so as long as B is mostly true for vegans, A and B is mostly true for (a sub-group) of vegans.
I’d agree with the characterization “it’s deeply emotionally and morally charged for one side in a conversation, and often emotional to the other.” because most people don’t have small identities and do feel attacked by others behaving differently indeed.