I think I’d find it somewhat gratifying if the show aired and revealed that nerds are much harder to engineer drama and conflict amongst, and the show showcased some methods the participants used to disperse what drama the directors (or whoever is in charge) tried to cultivate, in such a way that the viewers could learn from them.
But I suspect if that turned out to be the case, the show would be very unsuccessful and wouldn’t have a long run.
It wouldn’t happen that way. The person participating in the story has no power compared to the person orchestrating the story.
I think most people here would be surprised to know the tremendous extent to which narratives are manipulated in editing in reality TV. Watch ten minutes of any of the ghost hunter/paranormal type shows. Those will show how much can be constructed from the barest of actual events.
If the participants are actually spending time with each other though, rather than making their impressions through video footage, then it’s much harder to drive them into conflict than to make them appear to be in conflict. And if the participants actually manage to communicate and work out their issues, then engineering the appearance of a long term conflict would be liable to be more trouble than it was worth.
I don’t think I would personally be surprised by how much of the narratives of these shows are constructed, and I suspect many other people here would not be surprised, and as a result my inclination would be to treat any sort of footage the directors showed me of the other contestants in order to provoke a reaction as being meaningful only in light of how the directors want to manipulate us. If the nerds in question are good at dissolving disputes, attempting to manipulate them in such a way is likely to be ineffective.
But since the show is likely not to sell without it, an avoidance of conflict would mean the end of the show, not just the end of conflict on the show.
Also, since the Less Wrong cluster is only a small portion of nerdspace, and nerds are not all particularly good at communicating and dissolving disagreements, it may not be so difficult for them to find contestants with whom their direction plan is workable.
What makes you think that the ‘Less Wrong cluster’ is particularly good at dissolving disagreements? Keep in mind that the forum mechanics and policies are highly engineered to disincentivize discussion of divisive topics, which might create the illusion of agreement.
By dissolving, I don’t mean resolving, but recognizing that there wasn’t a basis for disagreement in the first place. That’s the principle of dissolving a question.
That’s what makes me suspect it might be more difficult to engineer conflict among them, they’d be more likely to notice that there weren’t substantial grounds for them to be at odds in the first place, and prevent the conflict from becoming self perpetuating.
I’ve certainly seen cases of this happening here, where I would expect a much longer and more drawn out conflict elsewhere.
That’s what makes me suspect it might be more difficult to engineer conflict among them, they’d be more likely to notice that there weren’t substantial grounds for them to be at odds in the first place, and prevent the conflict from becoming self perpetuating.
Well, these show tend to work on a “there can be only one” principle: each week one contestant is removed until the last man standing wins. The confilct that this mechanic creates seems pretty hard to “dissolve”.
I’ve certainly seen cases of this happening here, where I would expect a much longer and more drawn out conflict elsewhere.
As I said, forum mechanics and moderation policy: Karma penalities, banned topics, etc: people don’t “dissolve” their disagrement, they just avoid discussing divisive topics.
It hasn’t been my experience that people here particularly avoid talking about divisive topics.
The mechanism of implementing karma penalties for replying to heavily downvoted comments is fairly recent, as are most of the topic bans. For a long time, there was only one banned topic, and that one had a built in expiration date which ran up years ago.
Politics isn’t banned, just discouraged, I’ve seen a number of political discussions here, and participated in a few. As long as they stick to actual issues of policy rather than Blues vs. Greens, they generally don’t attract objection.
What Desrtopa said. Also one can get away with discussing the basilisk as long as one doesn’t go into too many details and/or attract enough attention.
I’ve read that introverts in general deal better with sleep deprivation than extroverts. I don’t know just how resilient against sleep deprivation their cast is likely to be, but I’m personally resistant enough that I doubt sleep deprivation would do a great deal to assist in engineering drama. In college, none of my peers were able to notice the difference when I went over 130 hours without sleep, and I doubt the show would be able to engineer deprivation levels approaching that without courting allegations of abuse.
I have not found nerds as a class to be all that good at conflict resolution per se. The relative peace they enjoy appears to me to arise from simply not all caring about the same few limited resources (status markers). If you get 10 nerds with the same set of interests together, sparks could well fly...
...
… either they fight a lot, or they form a poly commune.
The mechanics of these shows are intrinsically designed to create conflict: typically they kick out a player every week, based on audience polls, players polls, or some games. This puts each player against the others.
Even if some player found some clever way to subvert the rules, it doesn’t matter since the show authors can change them or simply ignore them as they see fit.
And even if nerds are better at resisting drama, they would be fighting against an entire team of ethically challenged people with large amount of control over their living environment. That would be like deciding to try your hand at Formula 1 racing because you’ve never had a car accident in your life.
I wonder if nerds have a higher variance of resistance to drama. The idea is that stronger inclination towards deliberate cognition makes it more dependent on the quality of drama-related memes they carry in their heads rather than temperament alone.
I think I’d find it somewhat gratifying if the show aired and revealed that nerds are much harder to engineer drama and conflict amongst, and the show showcased some methods the participants used to disperse what drama the directors (or whoever is in charge) tried to cultivate, in such a way that the viewers could learn from them.
But I suspect if that turned out to be the case, the show would be very unsuccessful and wouldn’t have a long run.
It wouldn’t happen that way. The person participating in the story has no power compared to the person orchestrating the story.
I think most people here would be surprised to know the tremendous extent to which narratives are manipulated in editing in reality TV. Watch ten minutes of any of the ghost hunter/paranormal type shows. Those will show how much can be constructed from the barest of actual events.
I’ve read that part of how they engineer drama is by sleep deficiency. That’s a hard one to beat.
It still pales in comparison to the power of invented meaning through editing.
It’s the Kuleshov Effect turned up to 11.
If the participants are actually spending time with each other though, rather than making their impressions through video footage, then it’s much harder to drive them into conflict than to make them appear to be in conflict. And if the participants actually manage to communicate and work out their issues, then engineering the appearance of a long term conflict would be liable to be more trouble than it was worth.
I don’t think I would personally be surprised by how much of the narratives of these shows are constructed, and I suspect many other people here would not be surprised, and as a result my inclination would be to treat any sort of footage the directors showed me of the other contestants in order to provoke a reaction as being meaningful only in light of how the directors want to manipulate us. If the nerds in question are good at dissolving disputes, attempting to manipulate them in such a way is likely to be ineffective.
But since the show is likely not to sell without it, an avoidance of conflict would mean the end of the show, not just the end of conflict on the show.
Also, since the Less Wrong cluster is only a small portion of nerdspace, and nerds are not all particularly good at communicating and dissolving disagreements, it may not be so difficult for them to find contestants with whom their direction plan is workable.
What makes you think that the ‘Less Wrong cluster’ is particularly good at dissolving disagreements?
Keep in mind that the forum mechanics and policies are highly engineered to disincentivize discussion of divisive topics, which might create the illusion of agreement.
By dissolving, I don’t mean resolving, but recognizing that there wasn’t a basis for disagreement in the first place. That’s the principle of dissolving a question.
That’s what makes me suspect it might be more difficult to engineer conflict among them, they’d be more likely to notice that there weren’t substantial grounds for them to be at odds in the first place, and prevent the conflict from becoming self perpetuating.
I’ve certainly seen cases of this happening here, where I would expect a much longer and more drawn out conflict elsewhere.
Well, these show tend to work on a “there can be only one” principle: each week one contestant is removed until the last man standing wins. The confilct that this mechanic creates seems pretty hard to “dissolve”.
As I said, forum mechanics and moderation policy: Karma penalities, banned topics, etc: people don’t “dissolve” their disagrement, they just avoid discussing divisive topics.
It hasn’t been my experience that people here particularly avoid talking about divisive topics.
The mechanism of implementing karma penalties for replying to heavily downvoted comments is fairly recent, as are most of the topic bans. For a long time, there was only one banned topic, and that one had a built in expiration date which ran up years ago.
Politics is a banned topic, and there is another one which can’t even be mentioned.
Politics isn’t banned, just discouraged, I’ve seen a number of political discussions here, and participated in a few. As long as they stick to actual issues of policy rather than Blues vs. Greens, they generally don’t attract objection.
What Desrtopa said. Also one can get away with discussing the basilisk as long as one doesn’t go into too many details and/or attract enough attention.
I’ve read that introverts in general deal better with sleep deprivation than extroverts. I don’t know just how resilient against sleep deprivation their cast is likely to be, but I’m personally resistant enough that I doubt sleep deprivation would do a great deal to assist in engineering drama. In college, none of my peers were able to notice the difference when I went over 130 hours without sleep, and I doubt the show would be able to engineer deprivation levels approaching that without courting allegations of abuse.
I have not found nerds as a class to be all that good at conflict resolution per se. The relative peace they enjoy appears to me to arise from simply not all caring about the same few limited resources (status markers). If you get 10 nerds with the same set of interests together, sparks could well fly...
...
… either they fight a lot, or they form a poly commune.
The mechanics of these shows are intrinsically designed to create conflict: typically they kick out a player every week, based on audience polls, players polls, or some games. This puts each player against the others.
Even if some player found some clever way to subvert the rules, it doesn’t matter since the show authors can change them or simply ignore them as they see fit.
I had similar thoughts. But there is also obligatory xkcd link.
And even if nerds are better at resisting drama, they would be fighting against an entire team of ethically challenged people with large amount of control over their living environment. That would be like deciding to try your hand at Formula 1 racing because you’ve never had a car accident in your life.
I wonder if nerds have a higher variance of resistance to drama. The idea is that stronger inclination towards deliberate cognition makes it more dependent on the quality of drama-related memes they carry in their heads rather than temperament alone.