The most blatantly racist/sexist/whatever people tend not to be the truly powerful; they tend to be marginal members of privileged groups, seeking scapegoats and any distraction from their marginal status. But everybody is biased in favor of those who they can get along with, those who think similarly, who they can understand and who can understand them. The truly powerful all have that bias, like everyone else. And so people with the same backgrounds as the powerful are more likely to fit in, to benefit from this bias. But some people are just good at fitting in, even without the similarity of background. Such people are likely to underestimate the general influence of privilege. And their existence also makes it easier for members of privileged groups to underestimate their own privilege; they have examples of people from marginal groups who they get along with perfectly well and who seem to do fine to show that they or the system couldn’t really be all that biased against such groups.
And, of course, there are people who are no good at fitting in regardless of similarity of background, who aggravate everyone because of poor social skills or whatever. They also don’t benefit from the bias in favor of those who fit in, so if they’re members of privileged groups they become convinced that privilege is a myth (since it doesn’t seem to be helping them) and they become MRAs or white supremicists or whatever.
So what your trying to argue is that the effect of privilege is not as strong as critical theorists claim, and that this is a problem because in causes people to believe that the effect of privilege is not as strong as critical theorists claim.
While I found your comment hilarious, I’m not sure it’s the most friendly interpretation of the argument. I interpreted more as “Some forms of privilege can be circumvented through other forms of privilege, which leads to people incorrectly gauging the impact of the original form of privilege.”
But some people are just good at fitting in, even without the similarity of background. Such people are likely to underestimate the general influence of privilege.
Do you have proof of this assertion? Maybe, say, a stronger statistical correlation between minority success and social ability and non-minority success and social ability?
I’m afraid not. I suppose my best reconstruction of my thinking is that there is ample evidence of high levels of bias against marginal groups, often in cases where those involved appear to be unaware of it. Further, I know anecdotal cases of people like E who seem to fit the pattern. It occurs to me that I don’t have statistical evidence for the other side of my theory either; I’ve frequently encountered the observation that the MRAs/white supremicists/anti-semites/etc., the various hate group types, are disproportionately losers, but I don’t think I’ve seen any actual studies which demonstrate such a correlation[1]. In any event, I’ve presented what seems to me to be a plausible explanation of part of people’s tendency to underestimate bias against members of marginal groups. Still, people are prone to all sorts of highly inaccurate reasoning, as we so often discuss around here, and perhaps no special explanation of the tendency to underestimate the effects of bias is needed beyond that it’s the kind of complex phenomenon people aren’t very reliable about assessing. So of course you’re right that some relevant studies would be welcome.
[edit] I suppose I can think of one example that isn’t just personal anecdote. I’ve encountered an observation from feminists doing history of philosophy that there are a number of examples of women who were highly respected thinkers in their own times, despite the prevailing climate of sexism, but their influence tended not to extend beyond their lifetimes. It seems that could be a result of personality overcoming the effects of bias, with bias reasserting itself among later people who were never exposed to the personality, though admittedly that’s hardly the only possible explanation for the pattern.
[1] For example, Sartre makes this observation in “The Portrait of an Anti-Semite,” and Nietzsche made similar observations which may have influenced Sartre, but of course neither ever did controlled studies of anything.
The most blatantly racist/sexist/whatever people tend not to be the truly powerful; they tend to be marginal members of privileged groups, seeking scapegoats and any distraction from their marginal status. But everybody is biased in favor of those who they can get along with, those who think similarly, who they can understand and who can understand them. The truly powerful all have that bias, like everyone else. And so people with the same backgrounds as the powerful are more likely to fit in, to benefit from this bias. But some people are just good at fitting in, even without the similarity of background. Such people are likely to underestimate the general influence of privilege. And their existence also makes it easier for members of privileged groups to underestimate their own privilege; they have examples of people from marginal groups who they get along with perfectly well and who seem to do fine to show that they or the system couldn’t really be all that biased against such groups.
And, of course, there are people who are no good at fitting in regardless of similarity of background, who aggravate everyone because of poor social skills or whatever. They also don’t benefit from the bias in favor of those who fit in, so if they’re members of privileged groups they become convinced that privilege is a myth (since it doesn’t seem to be helping them) and they become MRAs or white supremicists or whatever.
So what your trying to argue is that the effect of privilege is not as strong as critical theorists claim, and that this is a problem because in causes people to believe that the effect of privilege is not as strong as critical theorists claim.
While I found your comment hilarious, I’m not sure it’s the most friendly interpretation of the argument. I interpreted more as “Some forms of privilege can be circumvented through other forms of privilege, which leads to people incorrectly gauging the impact of the original form of privilege.”
Do you have proof of this assertion? Maybe, say, a stronger statistical correlation between minority success and social ability and non-minority success and social ability?
I’m afraid not. I suppose my best reconstruction of my thinking is that there is ample evidence of high levels of bias against marginal groups, often in cases where those involved appear to be unaware of it. Further, I know anecdotal cases of people like E who seem to fit the pattern. It occurs to me that I don’t have statistical evidence for the other side of my theory either; I’ve frequently encountered the observation that the MRAs/white supremicists/anti-semites/etc., the various hate group types, are disproportionately losers, but I don’t think I’ve seen any actual studies which demonstrate such a correlation[1]. In any event, I’ve presented what seems to me to be a plausible explanation of part of people’s tendency to underestimate bias against members of marginal groups. Still, people are prone to all sorts of highly inaccurate reasoning, as we so often discuss around here, and perhaps no special explanation of the tendency to underestimate the effects of bias is needed beyond that it’s the kind of complex phenomenon people aren’t very reliable about assessing. So of course you’re right that some relevant studies would be welcome.
[edit] I suppose I can think of one example that isn’t just personal anecdote. I’ve encountered an observation from feminists doing history of philosophy that there are a number of examples of women who were highly respected thinkers in their own times, despite the prevailing climate of sexism, but their influence tended not to extend beyond their lifetimes. It seems that could be a result of personality overcoming the effects of bias, with bias reasserting itself among later people who were never exposed to the personality, though admittedly that’s hardly the only possible explanation for the pattern.
[1] For example, Sartre makes this observation in “The Portrait of an Anti-Semite,” and Nietzsche made similar observations which may have influenced Sartre, but of course neither ever did controlled studies of anything.
That’s part of why I often think that it would be better to provide diverse spaces rather than slay heroes.