If I’m not mistaken, Bandera was interned at a German concentration camp when the atrocities took place.
Bandera was in prison when the atrocities in 1943 took place but not when those in 1941 took place.
The non-Crimeans Tatars are somewhat irrelevant here given that most are Russian.
It was also the case before 2014 that the majority in Crimea was Russian and there were a lot fewer Crimean Tatars.
But even if you want to ignore the Russians the poll also separates out self-identfying Ukrainans and a majority of them were also in support of the referendum.
Unfortunately I don’t think this harms their European support much—these are all things that are far in the past, and haven’t stopped the EU waxing poetic about how Ukraine is fundamentally one of them.
It was a reason why Ukraine got less military support from the EU before the invasion in 2022 than it wanted.
Ukraine still wants to be in the EU. The EU works in a way where every member state has a veto. Hungary has an easy time justifying that veto as long as Ukraine’s law is not really compatible with EU law regarding minority protections.
There are probably also a lot of others who at the European institutional level think “We already have enough problems with Polish and Hungarian nationalists, do we really want to deal with Ukrainian nationalists as well?”
Bandera was in prison when the atrocities in 1943 took place but not when those in 1941 took place.
First of all, thanks for catching this, I was mistaken. That said, it seems somewhat more complex, according to this link “Bandera was in occupied Poland when on June 30, 1941, his comrades proclaimed an independent Ukrainian state in Nazi-occupied Lviv — and the Germans banned him from traveling to Ukraine.”
This doesn’t, of course, vindicate him in any way—he was head of an organisation that performed atrocities and worked with Nazi Germany. But it also doesn’t make him guilty of said atrocities.
It was also the case before 2014 that the majority in Crimea was Russian and there were a lot fewer Crimean Tatars.
I’m loosely familiar with the history of Crimea, my point is that non-Crimean Tartars (many of who live, and have always lived in Russia) are irrelevant to Crimea. But maybe I’m misunderstanding things, and you mean “non-Crimean” Tartars who happen to live in Crimea?
But even if you want to ignore the Russians the poll also separates out self-identfying Ukrainans and a majority of them were also in support of the referendum.
So what? It’s a feature, not a bug, of the modern system of states that not everybody who wants a referendum to secede gets one.
It was a reason why Ukraine got less military support from the EU before the invasion in 2022 than it wanted.
The reason Ukraine got less military support from the EU than it wanted was primarily so as not to antogonize Russia, as far as I can tell.
There are probably also a lot of others who at the European institutional level think “We already have enough problems with Polish and Hungarian nationalists, do we really want to deal with Ukrainian nationalists as well?”
Yes, hence Scholz’s ridiculous pivot away from unanimity in the EU in Prague recently.
I’m loosely familiar with the history of Crimea, my point is that non-Crimean Tartars (many of who live, and have always lived in Russia) are irrelevant to Crimea. But maybe I’m misunderstanding things, and you mean “non-Crimean” Tartars who happen to live in Crimea?
I did link to the article of the poll that’s the source for the claims. The poll asked a bunch of different questions, if you are interested in understanding what Crimean think at that time, it’s worthwhile to read it.
I did refer to people who identify as either Ukrainian or Russian and not as Crimean Tartar when I said non-Crimean Tartar. So non-‘Crimean Tartar’.
Bandera was in prison when the atrocities in 1943 took place but not when those in 1941 took place.
It was also the case before 2014 that the majority in Crimea was Russian and there were a lot fewer Crimean Tatars.
But even if you want to ignore the Russians the poll also separates out self-identfying Ukrainans and a majority of them were also in support of the referendum.
It was a reason why Ukraine got less military support from the EU before the invasion in 2022 than it wanted.
Ukraine still wants to be in the EU. The EU works in a way where every member state has a veto. Hungary has an easy time justifying that veto as long as Ukraine’s law is not really compatible with EU law regarding minority protections.
There are probably also a lot of others who at the European institutional level think “We already have enough problems with Polish and Hungarian nationalists, do we really want to deal with Ukrainian nationalists as well?”
First of all, thanks for catching this, I was mistaken. That said, it seems somewhat more complex, according to this link “Bandera was in occupied Poland when on June 30, 1941, his comrades proclaimed an independent Ukrainian state in Nazi-occupied Lviv — and the Germans banned him from traveling to Ukraine.”
This doesn’t, of course, vindicate him in any way—he was head of an organisation that performed atrocities and worked with Nazi Germany. But it also doesn’t make him guilty of said atrocities.
I’m loosely familiar with the history of Crimea, my point is that non-Crimean Tartars (many of who live, and have always lived in Russia) are irrelevant to Crimea. But maybe I’m misunderstanding things, and you mean “non-Crimean” Tartars who happen to live in Crimea?
So what? It’s a feature, not a bug, of the modern system of states that not everybody who wants a referendum to secede gets one.
The reason Ukraine got less military support from the EU than it wanted was primarily so as not to antogonize Russia, as far as I can tell.
Yes, hence Scholz’s ridiculous pivot away from unanimity in the EU in Prague recently.
I did link to the article of the poll that’s the source for the claims. The poll asked a bunch of different questions, if you are interested in understanding what Crimean think at that time, it’s worthwhile to read it.
I did refer to people who identify as either Ukrainian or Russian and not as Crimean Tartar when I said non-Crimean Tartar. So non-‘Crimean Tartar’.
Aaah got it. My bad.