we he could easily still be alive anyway, because it’s known that philosopher’s stones exist and who knows who is using one apart from flamel?
I would guess Flamel knows. He’s the inventor, and considering that he’s stated with confidence that Voldemort couldn’t make one himself, and would need to go after the preexisting one, then there must be some really exceptional barriers to anyone else making them. Otherwise Voldemort could simply have imperiused or tortured anyone who could make one in order to get one for himself.
If there were any feasible way to gain control of a philosopher’s stone without having to get one’s hands on the Philosopher’s Stone, it would completely break the story.
Flamel is an inventor. And when assigning confidence in statements he makes about Philosopher’s Stones, you need to bear in mind that he’s the only inventor dumb enough to get caught. Anyone who independently invented it before him (or after) managed to keep it secret, that’s all.
Or maybe there’s more than one way to create a Philosopher’s Stone and Flamel discovered the most difficult, so now he has an inflated idea of how hard it would be for someone else to duplicate his feat.
Or possibly Flamel is the Dread Pirate Roberts and there’s no such thing as a Philosopher’s Stone at all.
I’m not sure which explanation I like more, actually.
The Philosopher’s Stone would be phenomenally useful to Quirrelmort, and if it weren’t really hard to get, he would presumably already have one. After all, if there’s anyone with an incentive to find the easiest way to get their hands on one, it’s him.
As for the Philosopher’s Stone not being real, I doubt Dumbledore would have gone to such lengths to guard it if he weren’t convinced it was, and I doubt tricking him into buying into a fake would be easy.
As to the second: the whole point of having it at Hogwarts to begin with was as bait for a trap, right? If everyone believes it’s real, it serves just as well for that purpose as if it actually were real. Even if Dumbledore knew it was a fake, he would still have every reason to guard it to the best of his ability.
Well, if HPMoR is consistent with canon, it would circumvent the need for him to conduct the ritual to get his old body back at all. Dumbledore also suggested it as an alternative route that Voldemort could take to return to power.
And the point of having it at Hogwarts wasn’t just as bait for a trap; Voldemort and his minions, even in the original canon, were capable of stealing from even the more secure vaults at Gringotts. In HPMoR, it could just be a trap, but if it’s so obvious as to not serve that purpose, and there’s nothing to protect, then what’s the point?
(Just to save everyone some time, here are the relevant quotes.)
HPMoR Chapter 61, Dumbledore to McGonagall and Snape:
His strongest road to life is the Philosopher’s Stone, which Flamel assures me that not even Voldemort could create on his own; by that road he would rise greater and more terrible than ever before. I would not have thought Voldemort able to resist the temptation of the Stone, still less because such an obvious trap is a challenge to his wit. But his second avenue is nearly as strong: The flesh of his servant, willingly given; the blood of his foe, forcibly taken; and the bone of his ancestor, unknowingly bequeathed. Voldemort [...] would certainly seek the most powerful combination: the flesh of Bellatrix Black, the blood of Harry Potter, and the bone of his father. Voldemort’s final avenue is to seduce a victim and drain the life from them over a long period; in which case Voldemort would be weak compared to his former power.
Dumbledore, at least, thinks the obviousness of the trap won’t preclude its success.
HPMoR Chapter 76, Quirrell to Snape:
A single glance would tell any competent wizard that the Headmaster has laced that corridor with a ridiculous quantity of wards and webs, triggers and tripsigns. And more: there are Charms laid there of ancient power, magical constructs of which I have heard not even rumors, techniques that must have been disgorged from the hoarded lore of Flamel himself. Even He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named would have had trouble passing those without notice.
That second bit is particularly interesting. It seems to suggest that Flamel would have been capable of protecting the Stone himself just as well as it’s being protected now, in which case why have it at Gringotts in the first place?
The question in my mind is: how could Voldemort know if the Stone in Hogwarts is fake or not? I mean, the situation seems to be that Dumbledore went to visit his old teacher Nicholas and came back with a “Philosopher’s Stone” in a small leather bag, which he deposited at Gringotts, and later took to Hogwarts. If you assume he actually is trying to protect the Stone, it would pretty much have to be a fake, wouldn’t it? (It’d be pretty funny if the real one was teleported into the Marianas Trench or something.)
And I think it’s something of a mistake to assume the only reason for breaking Bellatrix out of Azkaban is the resurrection ritual. Suppose that he does already have the Stone—maybe he replaced it with a fake months ago, maybe he invented it on his own, whatever—wouldn’t it still be useful to him to retrieve his most powerful and loyal servant?
Bellatrix isn’t remotely his most powerful servant anymore after her stay in Azkaban, and he could probably do to someone else what he did to her in the first place. Plus, in canon, once he returned to his former power, he was able to break everyone out of Azkaban. It might not be a great idea to sacrifice the element of surprise by doing so, but still, if he already had a route to power even greater than he possessed before, I don’t see why he’d stall on using it.
Plus, in canon, once he returned to his former power, he was able to break everyone out of Azkaban.
I would be rather surprised if, after all the characterization and buildup we’ve been given so far, MoR!Voldemort turned out to be capable of this as well.
It might not be a great idea to sacrifice the element of surprise by doing so, but still, if he already had a route to power even greater than he possessed before, I don’t see why he’d stall on using it.
As a suggestion: he may have decided that his goals are better served by remaining in his current guise (which he presumably could not do if he regained his body) than by sheer magical power, at least for now.
Personally I’m assuming that Quirrelmort rescued Bellatrix to influence Harry. He now has first-hand evidence that Harry was engaged in a major crime, has shown Harry a part of the Wizarding world which he could never accept which was enabled by democracy, has shown Harry that Dumbledore isn’t as proactive as Harry would want him to be, almost convinced Harry that a revolution is necessary, convinced Harry to lie to protect him, and has made Harry feel sorry for Bellatrix. Generating a ‘false alarm’ of Voldemort’s return is a nice side effect as well if he doesn’t plan on acting immediately, Dumbledore may well have just expended significant political capital too early. If he was planning on going through with the ritual, then he had Harry right there with him. (Although he could have just taken some blood while Harry was asleep, of course.)
The only motivation I can see for him to retrieve her otherwise is that he couldn’t remember what happened at Godric’s Hollow or to the Longbottoms, so he wanted to retrieve Bellatrix to find out, he regretted what he did to her (seems unlikely), or he’s not Quirrelmort, and is really just a powerful but neutral wizard who wants to try and retrieve some of Slytherin’s magics.
The most obvious motivation given what we know about Quirrelmort and what he needs to regain his old power is that he retrieved her for use in the spell that will restore his body. For his motive to be anything else would constitute a twist.
The fic often takes ‘joke’ aspects of magic and explores their less harmless uses. It leads the reader to be unwilling to take any reference as simply a joke—this as opposed to the original text, where the fact that it was meant to be a children’s book led to a lot of bite-sized humorous references with enormous, unexplored potential.
we he could easily still be alive anyway, because it’s known that philosopher’s stones exist and who knows who is using one apart from flamel?
As far as this go, I would guess it’s more of a joke on harry than anything significant.
I would guess Flamel knows. He’s the inventor, and considering that he’s stated with confidence that Voldemort couldn’t make one himself, and would need to go after the preexisting one, then there must be some really exceptional barriers to anyone else making them. Otherwise Voldemort could simply have imperiused or tortured anyone who could make one in order to get one for himself.
If there were any feasible way to gain control of a philosopher’s stone without having to get one’s hands on the Philosopher’s Stone, it would completely break the story.
Yes, but… just for the sake of argument...
Flamel is an inventor. And when assigning confidence in statements he makes about Philosopher’s Stones, you need to bear in mind that he’s the only inventor dumb enough to get caught. Anyone who independently invented it before him (or after) managed to keep it secret, that’s all.
Or maybe there’s more than one way to create a Philosopher’s Stone and Flamel discovered the most difficult, so now he has an inflated idea of how hard it would be for someone else to duplicate his feat.
Or possibly Flamel is the Dread Pirate Roberts and there’s no such thing as a Philosopher’s Stone at all.
I’m not sure which explanation I like more, actually.
The Philosopher’s Stone would be phenomenally useful to Quirrelmort, and if it weren’t really hard to get, he would presumably already have one. After all, if there’s anyone with an incentive to find the easiest way to get their hands on one, it’s him.
As for the Philosopher’s Stone not being real, I doubt Dumbledore would have gone to such lengths to guard it if he weren’t convinced it was, and I doubt tricking him into buying into a fake would be easy.
As to the second: the whole point of having it at Hogwarts to begin with was as bait for a trap, right? If everyone believes it’s real, it serves just as well for that purpose as if it actually were real. Even if Dumbledore knew it was a fake, he would still have every reason to guard it to the best of his ability.
As to the first… what makes you think he hasn’t?
Well, if HPMoR is consistent with canon, it would circumvent the need for him to conduct the ritual to get his old body back at all. Dumbledore also suggested it as an alternative route that Voldemort could take to return to power.
And the point of having it at Hogwarts wasn’t just as bait for a trap; Voldemort and his minions, even in the original canon, were capable of stealing from even the more secure vaults at Gringotts. In HPMoR, it could just be a trap, but if it’s so obvious as to not serve that purpose, and there’s nothing to protect, then what’s the point?
(Just to save everyone some time, here are the relevant quotes.)
HPMoR Chapter 61, Dumbledore to McGonagall and Snape:
Dumbledore, at least, thinks the obviousness of the trap won’t preclude its success.
HPMoR Chapter 76, Quirrell to Snape:
That second bit is particularly interesting. It seems to suggest that Flamel would have been capable of protecting the Stone himself just as well as it’s being protected now, in which case why have it at Gringotts in the first place?
The question in my mind is: how could Voldemort know if the Stone in Hogwarts is fake or not? I mean, the situation seems to be that Dumbledore went to visit his old teacher Nicholas and came back with a “Philosopher’s Stone” in a small leather bag, which he deposited at Gringotts, and later took to Hogwarts. If you assume he actually is trying to protect the Stone, it would pretty much have to be a fake, wouldn’t it? (It’d be pretty funny if the real one was teleported into the Marianas Trench or something.)
And I think it’s something of a mistake to assume the only reason for breaking Bellatrix out of Azkaban is the resurrection ritual. Suppose that he does already have the Stone—maybe he replaced it with a fake months ago, maybe he invented it on his own, whatever—wouldn’t it still be useful to him to retrieve his most powerful and loyal servant?
Bellatrix isn’t remotely his most powerful servant anymore after her stay in Azkaban, and he could probably do to someone else what he did to her in the first place. Plus, in canon, once he returned to his former power, he was able to break everyone out of Azkaban. It might not be a great idea to sacrifice the element of surprise by doing so, but still, if he already had a route to power even greater than he possessed before, I don’t see why he’d stall on using it.
Interesting. I hadn’t even considered the possibility that the story about brainwashing Bellatrix might actually be true.
I would be rather surprised if, after all the characterization and buildup we’ve been given so far, MoR!Voldemort turned out to be capable of this as well.
As a suggestion: he may have decided that his goals are better served by remaining in his current guise (which he presumably could not do if he regained his body) than by sheer magical power, at least for now.
Personally I’m assuming that Quirrelmort rescued Bellatrix to influence Harry. He now has first-hand evidence that Harry was engaged in a major crime, has shown Harry a part of the Wizarding world which he could never accept which was enabled by democracy, has shown Harry that Dumbledore isn’t as proactive as Harry would want him to be, almost convinced Harry that a revolution is necessary, convinced Harry to lie to protect him, and has made Harry feel sorry for Bellatrix. Generating a ‘false alarm’ of Voldemort’s return is a nice side effect as well if he doesn’t plan on acting immediately, Dumbledore may well have just expended significant political capital too early. If he was planning on going through with the ritual, then he had Harry right there with him. (Although he could have just taken some blood while Harry was asleep, of course.)
The only motivation I can see for him to retrieve her otherwise is that he couldn’t remember what happened at Godric’s Hollow or to the Longbottoms, so he wanted to retrieve Bellatrix to find out, he regretted what he did to her (seems unlikely), or he’s not Quirrelmort, and is really just a powerful but neutral wizard who wants to try and retrieve some of Slytherin’s magics.
The most obvious motivation given what we know about Quirrelmort and what he needs to regain his old power is that he retrieved her for use in the spell that will restore his body. For his motive to be anything else would constitute a twist.
The fic often takes ‘joke’ aspects of magic and explores their less harmless uses. It leads the reader to be unwilling to take any reference as simply a joke—this as opposed to the original text, where the fact that it was meant to be a children’s book led to a lot of bite-sized humorous references with enormous, unexplored potential.
Yes, but that’s jokes by the narrator (or by the world), not jokes by the characters.