As for where else these ideas can be found, philosophers have been working on conceptual vagueness intensely since the mid-20th century, and cluster concepts were a relatively early innovation. The philosophical literature also has the benefit of being largely free of nebulous speculations about cognition and needless formalism … The literature also uses terminology in the ordinary way familiar to everybody engaging these issues professionally … and avoids the invention of needless terms like “thingspace”, which mainly achieve the isolation of LessWrong from the external literature.
I think there’s some validity to this critique. I read The Cluster Structure of Thingspace (TCSOTS) and was asking myself “isn’t this just talking about the problem of classification?” And classification definitely doesn’t require us to treat ‘birdness’ or ‘motherhood’ as a discrete, as if a creature either has it or doesn’t. Classification can be on a spectrum, with a score for ‘birdness’ or ‘motherhood’ that’s a function of many properties.
I welcome (!!) making these concepts more accessible to those who are unfamiliar with them, and for that reason I really enjoyed TCSOTS.But it also seems like there’d also be a lot of utility in then tying these concepts to the fields of math/CS/philosophy that are already addressing these exact questions. These ideas presented in The Cluster of Thingspace are not new; not even a little—so why not use them as a jumping-off-point for the broader literature on these subjects, to show how researchers in the field have approached these issues, and the solutions they’ve managed to come up with?
See: Fuzzy Math, Support Vector Machines, ANNs, Decision Trees, etc.
So: I think posts like this would have a stronger impact if tied into the broader literature that already covers the same subjects. The reader who started the article unfamiliar with the subject would, at the end, have a stronger idea of where the field stands, and they would also be better resourced for further exploring the subject on their own.
Note: this is probably also why most scientific papers start with a discussion of previous related work.
I do agree that a lot of seqeunces pages would benefit a lot from having discussion of previous work or at least stating what these ideas are called in the mainstream, but I feel Yudkowskys neologisms are just… better. Among the examples of similar concepts you mentioned, I definitely felt Yudkowsky was hinting at them with the whole dimensions thing, but I think “thingspace” is still a useful word and not even that complicated; if it was said in a conversation with someone familiar with ANNs I feel they would get what it meant. (Unlike a lot of other Yudkowskisms usually parroted around here, however...)
I think there’s some validity to this critique. I read The Cluster Structure of Thingspace (TCSOTS) and was asking myself “isn’t this just talking about the problem of classification?” And classification definitely doesn’t require us to treat ‘birdness’ or ‘motherhood’ as a discrete, as if a creature either has it or doesn’t. Classification can be on a spectrum, with a score for ‘birdness’ or ‘motherhood’ that’s a function of many properties.
I welcome (!!) making these concepts more accessible to those who are unfamiliar with them, and for that reason I really enjoyed TCSOTS.But it also seems like there’d also be a lot of utility in then tying these concepts to the fields of math/CS/philosophy that are already addressing these exact questions. These ideas presented in The Cluster of Thingspace are not new; not even a little—so why not use them as a jumping-off-point for the broader literature on these subjects, to show how researchers in the field have approached these issues, and the solutions they’ve managed to come up with?
See: Fuzzy Math, Support Vector Machines, ANNs, Decision Trees, etc.
So: I think posts like this would have a stronger impact if tied into the broader literature that already covers the same subjects. The reader who started the article unfamiliar with the subject would, at the end, have a stronger idea of where the field stands, and they would also be better resourced for further exploring the subject on their own.
Note: this is probably also why most scientific papers start with a discussion of previous related work.
I do agree that a lot of seqeunces pages would benefit a lot from having discussion of previous work or at least stating what these ideas are called in the mainstream, but I feel Yudkowskys neologisms are just… better. Among the examples of similar concepts you mentioned, I definitely felt Yudkowsky was hinting at them with the whole dimensions thing, but I think “thingspace” is still a useful word and not even that complicated; if it was said in a conversation with someone familiar with ANNs I feel they would get what it meant. (Unlike a lot of other Yudkowskisms usually parroted around here, however...)