Or is this all just bad luck… that if you make a workshop, and a future murderer decides to go there, and they decide to use some of your keywords in their later manifesto… then it doesn’t really matter what you do, even if you tell them to fuck off and call cops on them, you will forever be connected to them, and it’s up to journalists whether they decide to spin it as: the murderer is just an example of everything that is wrong with this community.
I think this is a strange description of the mainstream media coverage when most of the articles talking about Zizian ideology are nearly entirely sourced from interviews with rationalists and talk about their conflict with mainline rationalists at length.
The lesson I can glean is probably that considering the high rate of cult creation in the community and the flashing warning signs about them, rationalists should have been far more proactive in adopting normal procedures of cult and terrorism prevention (e.g. surveilling their activities, preventing the isolation of potential recruits, and looking for any suspiciously missing person).
normal procedures of cult and terrorism prevention (e.g. surveilling their activities, preventing the isolation of potential recruits, and looking for any suspiciously missing person).
Surveilling whose activities?
For example, there is a YouTube video with Slimepriestess, who defends Zizians a bit too much, in my opinion. Should we be surveilling Slimepriestess?
I chose a specific person and an exaggerated example on purpose. Because, in real situation, it will always be a specific person, and unless the behavior is really bad (which means it is already late), any proposed action will seem excessive to some people. And it will feel virtuous to err on the side of letting people do whatever they want.
(And if the police is already looking for Ziz, you don’t need to surveil. If you see Ziz, pick up the phone and call the cops, don’t try anything heroic, or the next story might be about you.)
I think we still haven’t reached a consensus on whether Nonlinear are bad guys. That was a year ago.
So… yeah, we should do something like that, but it is difficult to get the details right.
Core Zizians (and, in general, any group determined to be a cult or terror threat to the community), as the US doesn’t really have an equivalent of, say, the French MIVILUDES to do that job (else US society would be fairly different). Potential recruits are addressed in the next comma.
I think this is a strange description of the mainstream media coverage when most of the articles talking about Zizian ideology are nearly entirely sourced from interviews with rationalists and talk about their conflict with mainline rationalists at length.
The lesson I can glean is probably that considering the high rate of cult creation in the community and the flashing warning signs about them, rationalists should have been far more proactive in adopting normal procedures of cult and terrorism prevention (e.g. surveilling their activities, preventing the isolation of potential recruits, and looking for any suspiciously missing person).
Surveilling whose activities?
For example, there is a YouTube video with Slimepriestess, who defends Zizians a bit too much, in my opinion. Should we be surveilling Slimepriestess?
I chose a specific person and an exaggerated example on purpose. Because, in real situation, it will always be a specific person, and unless the behavior is really bad (which means it is already late), any proposed action will seem excessive to some people. And it will feel virtuous to err on the side of letting people do whatever they want.
(And if the police is already looking for Ziz, you don’t need to surveil. If you see Ziz, pick up the phone and call the cops, don’t try anything heroic, or the next story might be about you.)
I think we still haven’t reached a consensus on whether Nonlinear are bad guys. That was a year ago.
So… yeah, we should do something like that, but it is difficult to get the details right.
Core Zizians (and, in general, any group determined to be a cult or terror threat to the community), as the US doesn’t really have an equivalent of, say, the French MIVILUDES to do that job (else US society would be fairly different). Potential recruits are addressed in the next comma.