I don’t see how those numbers, even if correct, mean that I’m being too pessimistic about Esperanto. I didn’t deny that some people speak it, or that it’s easy to learn. I said I don’t see any plausible pathway by which it becomes widely enough used to be a lingua franca.
The most interesting of those figures is the one about how many hours it takes to learn various languages. The link you gave doesn’t offer any direct support for the startling claim you make (apparently saying that Esperanto is 10x easier to learn than English); rather, it quotes someone else describing a study apparently done by the University of Paderborn’s Institute of Pedagogic Cybernetics. (On French students, so part of what this is measuring is similarity to French; that will no doubt be why German is alleged to be harder than English. I remark that Esperanto is more like French than English is—though probably not more like French than Italian is.) Unfortunately I can’t readily track down more information about this (it’s cited in an article by Flochon in a book by Guy Gauthier but, at least as quoted in the Grin report, doesn’t give any specifics about the study). I would want to know more before believing that the ratio is so very large.
Also it’s not about being similar to French and I don’t know why you think that. I’ve learned Esperanto and French and didn’t notice any similarities. Actually the Chinese were one of the biggest supporters, though that may be trending down.
It would be easy to grow Esperanto quickly. It would require some concerted effort, but there is a solid though small base around the world and there only needs to be some push to make it happen. Becoming the official language of the EU is one plausible avenue, but another one might crop up in the next few centuries.
it’s not about being similar to French and I don’t know why you think that.
Because (1) the study mentioned in the Grin report was conducted on francophone students and (2) while Esperanto is a proposal for a universal language, its structure and vocabulary are very decidedly European and indeed Romance. It is much more like French than Japanese or Mandarin or Korean, or even Sanskrit. Or, in fact, German.
I’ve learned Esperanto and French and didn’t notice any similarities.
That surprises me. Let’s try a little experiment. Go to the Wikipedia page on Esperanto (selected just because it’s an obvious thing to select, so you know I’m not cherry-picking) and find the first substantial quantity of Esperanto text. It’s this:
En multaj lokoj de Ĉinio estis temploj de la drako-reĝo. Dum trosekeco oni preĝis en la temploj, ke la drako-reĝo donu pluvon al la homa mondo. Tiam drako estis simbolo de la supernatura estaĵo. Kaj pli poste, ĝi fariĝis prapatro de la plej altaj regantoj kaj simbolis la absolutan aŭtoritaton de feŭda imperiestro. La imperiestro pretendis, ke li estas filo de la drako. Ĉiuj liaj vivbezonaĵoj portis la nomon drako kaj estis ornamitaj per diversaj drakofiguroj. Nun ĉie en Ĉinio videblas drako-ornamentaĵoj, kaj cirkulas legendoj pri drakoj.
The very first word (en) has approximately the same spelling, pronunciation and meaning as a French word. This is not a coincidence. The next word doesn’t (I think). The next (lokoj) is in fact cognate with French lieux with the same meaning. Next (de): French also has a word “de” with the same spelling and similar pronunciation, and a closely related meaning. Then Ĉinio; corresponding French is Chine, similar spelling, similar pronunciation. Maybe half the words in this passage have close French cousins. The sentence structures are very similar too. The writing system is almost identical—same repertoire of letters, similar set of accents, more or less the same punctuation.
If you took the same text and wrote it in, say, Tamil, it would be very much more different.
It would be easy to grow Esperanto quickly.
Easy for whom? What’s the actual sequence of events that would lead to it happening?
Becoming the official language of the EU is one plausible avenue
I think we may have different ideas about what constitutes plausibility. I agree it’s possible but I’d put the probability well below 1%.
Sorry, but the idea that Esperanto is somehow only easy for French speakers is plainly wrong. I don’t think you’ll find anyone who has learned it and another language who’ll disagree.
Actually Esperanto is in the same language family as many Asian ones:
I think you’re being too pessimistic about Esperanto:
There are about 2 million speakers worldwide [4]. For a language only 100 years old.
It was recently added to Duolingo [5], a great resource for learning.
The Esperanto wikipedia is ranked #32 in terms of number of articles. [1]
It’s taught in 69 universities in 24 countries, several offering bachelors or PhD degrees. [7]
Prominent people are fluent in Esperanto, like the president of Austria [8]
After Britain leaves, only Ireland will speak English in the EU, giving Esperanto an opening. [11]
Esperanto is so easy to learn:
-> 2000 hours studying German = 1500 English = 1000 Italian = 150 Esperanto [6]
-> you can get it for free if you learn it along the way of learning English [9][2][10]
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Wikipedias
[2] http://www.aaie.us/wordpress/?page\_id=42
[4] http://www.esperanto.net/veb/faq-5.html
[5] https://www.duolingo.com/course/eo/en/Learn-Esperanto-Online
[6] http://www.ladocumentationfrancaise.fr/rapports-publics/054000678/index.shtml
[7] https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto\_en\_universitatoj
[8] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/30/AR2007033000824.html
[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaedeutic\_value\_of\_Esperanto
[10] ‘A language teaching experiment’, Canadian Modern Language Review 22.1: 26–28
[11] http://e-d-e.org
I don’t see how those numbers, even if correct, mean that I’m being too pessimistic about Esperanto. I didn’t deny that some people speak it, or that it’s easy to learn. I said I don’t see any plausible pathway by which it becomes widely enough used to be a lingua franca.
The most interesting of those figures is the one about how many hours it takes to learn various languages. The link you gave doesn’t offer any direct support for the startling claim you make (apparently saying that Esperanto is 10x easier to learn than English); rather, it quotes someone else describing a study apparently done by the University of Paderborn’s Institute of Pedagogic Cybernetics. (On French students, so part of what this is measuring is similarity to French; that will no doubt be why German is alleged to be harder than English. I remark that Esperanto is more like French than English is—though probably not more like French than Italian is.) Unfortunately I can’t readily track down more information about this (it’s cited in an article by Flochon in a book by Guy Gauthier but, at least as quoted in the Grin report, doesn’t give any specifics about the study). I would want to know more before believing that the ratio is so very large.
You should better look at the wikipedia page I linked:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaedeutic_value_of_Esperanto
Also it’s not about being similar to French and I don’t know why you think that. I’ve learned Esperanto and French and didn’t notice any similarities. Actually the Chinese were one of the biggest supporters, though that may be trending down.
It would be easy to grow Esperanto quickly. It would require some concerted effort, but there is a solid though small base around the world and there only needs to be some push to make it happen. Becoming the official language of the EU is one plausible avenue, but another one might crop up in the next few centuries.
Because (1) the study mentioned in the Grin report was conducted on francophone students and (2) while Esperanto is a proposal for a universal language, its structure and vocabulary are very decidedly European and indeed Romance. It is much more like French than Japanese or Mandarin or Korean, or even Sanskrit. Or, in fact, German.
That surprises me. Let’s try a little experiment. Go to the Wikipedia page on Esperanto (selected just because it’s an obvious thing to select, so you know I’m not cherry-picking) and find the first substantial quantity of Esperanto text. It’s this:
The very first word (en) has approximately the same spelling, pronunciation and meaning as a French word. This is not a coincidence. The next word doesn’t (I think). The next (lokoj) is in fact cognate with French lieux with the same meaning. Next (de): French also has a word “de” with the same spelling and similar pronunciation, and a closely related meaning. Then Ĉinio; corresponding French is Chine, similar spelling, similar pronunciation. Maybe half the words in this passage have close French cousins. The sentence structures are very similar too. The writing system is almost identical—same repertoire of letters, similar set of accents, more or less the same punctuation.
If you took the same text and wrote it in, say, Tamil, it would be very much more different.
Easy for whom? What’s the actual sequence of events that would lead to it happening?
I think we may have different ideas about what constitutes plausibility. I agree it’s possible but I’d put the probability well below 1%.
Sorry, but the idea that Esperanto is somehow only easy for French speakers is plainly wrong. I don’t think you’ll find anyone who has learned it and another language who’ll disagree.
Actually Esperanto is in the same language family as many Asian ones:
http://claudepiron.free.fr/articlesenanglais/europeanorasiatic.htm