If I read you correctly, then I know this mental state well indeed.
If it feels like nothing has any terminal value—or, at least, not enough terminal value to be worth working towards—then this is probably a function of your mood rather than your actual values.
This is not, of course, what it feels like. From inside that state, blaming your mood for your apathy sounds like bullshit. That apathy is a possibly-sad, but reasonable, response to the frequent futility of action, or the sheer self-supporting shittiness of the world, or (at best) the absolute absurdity of all goals.
During a solid year of college, I actually started taking notes about what seemed to affect my moment-to-moment mood most strongly. The stablest, strongest factors were whether or not I had exercised, socialized, or achieved a new goal in the past two days. I’ve since structured my mornings and evenings around doing these things regularly, and have been vastly happier.
Now, I’ve seen these specific activities recommended by other people to improve mood, but among dozens of others. They’re pretty good places to start, but I actually suggest finding what works for you. I do strongly suggest trying this, though: working towards ends I deeply care about is far more satisfying for me than practically anything else, but I don’t actually care about those ends unless I’m in a good enough mood. I suspect most people are the same way.
I’m not sure I believe in actual values, except as revealed by actual actions. I do think of apathy as a mood, but it generally feels like moods are all that’s… there.
I’m not actually as unhappy as the way I wrote that post might be read to indicate. The swearing was meant in the tone of carelessness, not anger, though admittedly when I see other people swear in text I tend to read it as anger as well.
Exercise makes me tired. Socialization elevates my mood while i’m socializing, but afterwards there’s a feeling of revulsion, an intellectual emptiness (even after socializing with smart people) and a mental itchiness as I shed the sociable personality I chameleoned into. Achieving a new goal feels like water tastes.
My mood improves when I find or think of something funny or interesting, but as a jaded internet addict this is a fairly high bar, and it doesn’t really motivate me to do anything other than search more of the space that had the funny and interesting thing in it, which is procrastination most of the time.
Recently i’ve found my productivity and mood are both significantly enhanced by amphetamines, though I cannot attest to the long-term effectiveness of this strategy.
I’m not actually as unhappy as the way I wrote that post might be read to indicate.
I’m not actually treading as softly as I would if I thought you were. ;) Try not to read me as speaking softly as if to a sad child, but as someone who’s sharing evidence that might be useful.
I’m not sure I believe in actual values, except as revealed by actual actions. I do think of apathy as a mood, but it generally feels like moods are all that’s… there.
This is pretty close what I meant by “the absolute absurdity of all goals”; if you hold no “actual”, terminal values, than goals are silly. I identify more with myself-while-energetic than with myself-while-apathetic, even when I’m apathetic, and so I feel like I have some stable, difficult goals even when I don’t feel like a care about them.
Exercise makes me tired.
Me too—but can you detect any effects about 6 hours later? Try and gauge it a few times. (At this point, I’m tempted to say “keep a diary of everything you do, and randomly sample your mood!” But I know quite well that only works when you’ve got enough baseline pathy to do it steadily.)
Socialization elevates my mood while i’m socializing, but afterwards there’s a feeling of revulsion, an intellectual emptiness (even after socializing with smart people) and a mental itchiness as I shed the sociable personality I chameleoned into.
I’m definitely made tired by socializing with other people, but usually happier—a lot like how most people describe being tired but feeling good right after exercise. What you describe sounds like needing to work hard to spent time with people you don’t actually like, which is tiring and unpleasant in the short-term and long-term.
This is pretty close what I meant by “the absolute absurdity of all goals”; if you hold no “actual”, terminal values, than goals are silly. I identify more with myself-while-energetic than with myself-while-apathetic, even when I’m apathetic, and so I feel like I have some stable, difficult goals even when I don’t feel like a care about them.
I think I’m the reverse, I identify more with myself-while-apathetic even while energetic. I can drug myself into a state where I enjoy working on difficult projects all day, and I even enjoy it, but it still doesn’t feel like I have stable goals. Maybe that will change with time.
Then again, in this new brain-state I can bring myself to care about almost anything that’s put in front of me. Instead of caring about nothing, regardless of how important, I care about everything, regardless of how trivial. If nothing else presents itself as a task, I can easily spend the better part of an hour rewording a paragraph in hundreds of different permutations until I find the one that’s best (regardless of what that paragraph is about).
I don’t feel like my apathy is abnormal in and of itself, but combined with being more aware of the big picture, and thinking more about the future, it seems more troubling. Most people have nothing but the life in front of their noses, working at a grocery store or whatever, and so their listlessness is entirely natural. I’m different. Like you, and like many people on this site, I have vision, I can see that the world is at a crossroads and that I have the potential to change its course. And yet, I still feel nothing, while it seems like the rest of you are enthusiastic.
I’m definitely made tired by socializing with other people, but usually happier—a lot like how most people describe being tired but feeling good right after exercise. What you describe sounds like needing to work hard to spent time with people you don’t actually like, which is tiring and unpleasant in the short-term and long-term.
I do genuinely enjoy it while I’m doing it, there’s just an unpleasant aftereffect. But maybe you’re right, and I don’t actually like any of these people. If that’s the case, I’m not sure what to do, though. If I don’t actually like anyone I’ve met, what does that mean? That I have a personality disorder? That everyone else sucks?
I don’t feel like my apathy is abnormal in and of itself, but combined with being more aware of the big picture, and thinking more about the future, it seems more troubling. Most people have nothing but the life in front of their noses, working at a grocery store or whatever, and so their listlessness is entirely natural. I’m different. Like you, and like many people on this site, I have vision, I can see that the world is at a crossroads and that I have the potential to change its course. And yet, I still feel nothing, while it seems like the rest of you are enthusiastic.
If I read you correctly, then I know this mental state well indeed.
If it feels like nothing has any terminal value—or, at least, not enough terminal value to be worth working towards—then this is probably a function of your mood rather than your actual values.
This is not, of course, what it feels like. From inside that state, blaming your mood for your apathy sounds like bullshit. That apathy is a possibly-sad, but reasonable, response to the frequent futility of action, or the sheer self-supporting shittiness of the world, or (at best) the absolute absurdity of all goals.
During a solid year of college, I actually started taking notes about what seemed to affect my moment-to-moment mood most strongly. The stablest, strongest factors were whether or not I had exercised, socialized, or achieved a new goal in the past two days. I’ve since structured my mornings and evenings around doing these things regularly, and have been vastly happier.
Now, I’ve seen these specific activities recommended by other people to improve mood, but among dozens of others. They’re pretty good places to start, but I actually suggest finding what works for you. I do strongly suggest trying this, though: working towards ends I deeply care about is far more satisfying for me than practically anything else, but I don’t actually care about those ends unless I’m in a good enough mood. I suspect most people are the same way.
I’m not sure I believe in actual values, except as revealed by actual actions. I do think of apathy as a mood, but it generally feels like moods are all that’s… there.
I’m not actually as unhappy as the way I wrote that post might be read to indicate. The swearing was meant in the tone of carelessness, not anger, though admittedly when I see other people swear in text I tend to read it as anger as well.
Exercise makes me tired. Socialization elevates my mood while i’m socializing, but afterwards there’s a feeling of revulsion, an intellectual emptiness (even after socializing with smart people) and a mental itchiness as I shed the sociable personality I chameleoned into. Achieving a new goal feels like water tastes.
My mood improves when I find or think of something funny or interesting, but as a jaded internet addict this is a fairly high bar, and it doesn’t really motivate me to do anything other than search more of the space that had the funny and interesting thing in it, which is procrastination most of the time.
Recently i’ve found my productivity and mood are both significantly enhanced by amphetamines, though I cannot attest to the long-term effectiveness of this strategy.
I’m not actually treading as softly as I would if I thought you were. ;) Try not to read me as speaking softly as if to a sad child, but as someone who’s sharing evidence that might be useful.
This is pretty close what I meant by “the absolute absurdity of all goals”; if you hold no “actual”, terminal values, than goals are silly. I identify more with myself-while-energetic than with myself-while-apathetic, even when I’m apathetic, and so I feel like I have some stable, difficult goals even when I don’t feel like a care about them.
Me too—but can you detect any effects about 6 hours later? Try and gauge it a few times. (At this point, I’m tempted to say “keep a diary of everything you do, and randomly sample your mood!” But I know quite well that only works when you’ve got enough baseline pathy to do it steadily.)
I’m definitely made tired by socializing with other people, but usually happier—a lot like how most people describe being tired but feeling good right after exercise. What you describe sounds like needing to work hard to spent time with people you don’t actually like, which is tiring and unpleasant in the short-term and long-term.
I think I’m the reverse, I identify more with myself-while-apathetic even while energetic. I can drug myself into a state where I enjoy working on difficult projects all day, and I even enjoy it, but it still doesn’t feel like I have stable goals. Maybe that will change with time.
Then again, in this new brain-state I can bring myself to care about almost anything that’s put in front of me. Instead of caring about nothing, regardless of how important, I care about everything, regardless of how trivial. If nothing else presents itself as a task, I can easily spend the better part of an hour rewording a paragraph in hundreds of different permutations until I find the one that’s best (regardless of what that paragraph is about).
I don’t feel like my apathy is abnormal in and of itself, but combined with being more aware of the big picture, and thinking more about the future, it seems more troubling. Most people have nothing but the life in front of their noses, working at a grocery store or whatever, and so their listlessness is entirely natural. I’m different. Like you, and like many people on this site, I have vision, I can see that the world is at a crossroads and that I have the potential to change its course. And yet, I still feel nothing, while it seems like the rest of you are enthusiastic.
I do genuinely enjoy it while I’m doing it, there’s just an unpleasant aftereffect. But maybe you’re right, and I don’t actually like any of these people. If that’s the case, I’m not sure what to do, though. If I don’t actually like anyone I’ve met, what does that mean? That I have a personality disorder? That everyone else sucks?
Excellent. Which ones do you use? This is valuable anecdotal information.
Adderall XR, currently 40 mg per day.
This is roughly how I feel as well.