Ah, yes indeedy true. I guess I was thinking of abstinence. So wrong distinction. More likely, then: abortion is done to a specific embryo who is thereby prevented from being, and it’s done reactively; there’s no question that when you have an abortion it’s about deciding to kill this particular embryo. Contraceptive use on the other hand is nonspecific and proactive; it doesn’t feel like “I discard these reproductive cells which would have become a person!”, it feels like exerting prudent control over your life.
Every time contraception is used, it prevents a specific multitude of “potential humans” from existing. Sure, most of them would have been prevented from existing by other factors, but contraception still actively contributes to that. It’s also done reactively, in that it’s a reaction to someone’s desire to have sex with a lower risk of pregnancy. It may not feel the same way as abortion, but that’s just because it’s easier for humans to value fetuses than sperm and egg cells. Both abortion and contraception have specific and reactive components, in principle.
It seems to me that we mean different things by the words “reactive” (as opposed to proactive) and “specific”. A weak attempt at a reductio: I proactively do X to avoid facing Y; I am thus reacting to my desire to avoid facing Y. And is Y general or specific? Y is the specific Y that I do X to avoid facing.
A person doesn’t want to have a baby, so she has an abortion to stop the fetus from developing into one.
A person doesn’t want to have a fetus, so she uses contraception to stop the ovum and sperm from developing into one.
If 1 is reactive, then so is 2.
For a given fetus, there is a finite possibility space of all the persons into which it could develop, taking into account different values of unknown future parameters. The same can be said of any combination of sperm and ova; it’s just that the possibility space is larger. How would one derive a concept of “specific” that discriminates between the fetus space and the sperm/ova space without drawing an arbitrary line based on the size of the space?
Do you have an instance of “I proactively do X” where you do not class it as reactive? Do you have an instance of “I wish to avoid Y” where you do not class it as specific?
I don’t like conversations about definitions. I was using these words to describe a hypothetical inner experience; I don’t claim that they aren’t fuzzy. You seem to be pointing at the fuzziness and saying that they’re meaningless; I don’t see why you’d want to do that.
My point is that 1 and 2 above don’t seem to differ fundamentally in either of the two descriptors you used.
Conversations about definitions of words are not useful, but definitions of concepts are necessary. I’m pointing at the fuzziness because it indicates to me that the supposed distinction is not being made based on any principle, but simply to rationalize a preexisting bias.
I wasn’t trying to present a principled distinction, or trying to avoid bias. What I was saying isn’t something I’m going to defend. The only reason I responded to your criticism of it was that I was annoyed by the nature of your objection. However, since now I know you thought I was trying to say more than I actually was, I will freely ignore your objection.
Ah, yes indeedy true. I guess I was thinking of abstinence. So wrong distinction. More likely, then: abortion is done to a specific embryo who is thereby prevented from being, and it’s done reactively; there’s no question that when you have an abortion it’s about deciding to kill this particular embryo. Contraceptive use on the other hand is nonspecific and proactive; it doesn’t feel like “I discard these reproductive cells which would have become a person!”, it feels like exerting prudent control over your life.
Every time contraception is used, it prevents a specific multitude of “potential humans” from existing. Sure, most of them would have been prevented from existing by other factors, but contraception still actively contributes to that. It’s also done reactively, in that it’s a reaction to someone’s desire to have sex with a lower risk of pregnancy. It may not feel the same way as abortion, but that’s just because it’s easier for humans to value fetuses than sperm and egg cells. Both abortion and contraception have specific and reactive components, in principle.
It seems to me that we mean different things by the words “reactive” (as opposed to proactive) and “specific”. A weak attempt at a reductio: I proactively do X to avoid facing Y; I am thus reacting to my desire to avoid facing Y. And is Y general or specific? Y is the specific Y that I do X to avoid facing.
A person doesn’t want to have a baby, so she has an abortion to stop the fetus from developing into one.
A person doesn’t want to have a fetus, so she uses contraception to stop the ovum and sperm from developing into one.
If 1 is reactive, then so is 2.
For a given fetus, there is a finite possibility space of all the persons into which it could develop, taking into account different values of unknown future parameters. The same can be said of any combination of sperm and ova; it’s just that the possibility space is larger. How would one derive a concept of “specific” that discriminates between the fetus space and the sperm/ova space without drawing an arbitrary line based on the size of the space?
Do you have an instance of “I proactively do X” where you do not class it as reactive? Do you have an instance of “I wish to avoid Y” where you do not class it as specific? I don’t like conversations about definitions. I was using these words to describe a hypothetical inner experience; I don’t claim that they aren’t fuzzy. You seem to be pointing at the fuzziness and saying that they’re meaningless; I don’t see why you’d want to do that.
My point is that 1 and 2 above don’t seem to differ fundamentally in either of the two descriptors you used.
Conversations about definitions of words are not useful, but definitions of concepts are necessary. I’m pointing at the fuzziness because it indicates to me that the supposed distinction is not being made based on any principle, but simply to rationalize a preexisting bias.
I wasn’t trying to present a principled distinction, or trying to avoid bias. What I was saying isn’t something I’m going to defend. The only reason I responded to your criticism of it was that I was annoyed by the nature of your objection. However, since now I know you thought I was trying to say more than I actually was, I will freely ignore your objection.