It’s an excellent show, though don’t expect too much rationality. Madoka is no HP:MoR, but since there is very little rationality-relevant content in anime it does stand out.
For me it was a case of two independent interests unexpectedly having some crossover. As a fan of SHAFT (the animation studio) and mahou shoujo in general, it was a given I was going to watch Madoka. Then fhcreuhzna vagryyvtraprf naq vasbezngvba-nflzzrgevp artbgvngvba?
In a classic mahou shoujo setup like this, with magical powers and wish-granting etc, an obvious-to-LWers objection will be “Why doesn’t someone just wish for no one to suffer/die ever again?”. Certainly MoR!Harry would have handled this world a lot differently. I was expecting to just have to live with this oversight in an otherwise impressively coherent setting. But I think by the end of the show even that can be justified if you really want to, based on Xlhorl’f ercrngrq qrprcgvbaf (naq gurersber gur pbzcyrgr ynpx bs perqvovyvgl bs uvf pynvzf bs hayvzvgrq cbjre gb tenag jvfurf), gur rkgerzryl lbhat cebgntbavfgf, naq gur nccnerag “ehyr” gung gur zntavghqr bs gur jvfu qrcraqf ba gur qrcgu bs srryvat naq qrfver sbe vg. Madoka is not MoR!Harry, after all.
I’m not sure why you’re positing erfgevpgvbaf ba Xlhorl’f cbjre. Ur qvq rirelguvat ur pynvzrq gb or noyr gb qb, naq vg znxrf frafr sbe uvz gb tenag nal jvfu gung tvirf na raretl cebsvg. Am I forgetting something?
I mostly agree with you. In particular I really liked that Znqbxn’f jvfu jrag fb sne nf gb erjevgr gur havirefr. Gur fbhepr bs ure rzbgvbaf orvat sbe gur zntvpny tveyf naq gur pehrygl bs gur onetnva gurl znqr, V jnf npghnyyl n yvggyr jbeevrq va gur yrnq-hc gb gur svanyr gung ure jvfu jbhyqa’g or zbzragbhf rabhtu.
Ng gur fnzr gvzr, gubhtu gur jvfu raqrq hc ovt rabhtu gb or n fngvfslvat raq, V guvax vg’f cerggl rnfl gb jbaqre jul fur pbhyqa’g tb shegure. Gur arj havirefr vf arneyl vqragvpny gb gur byq bar, evtug qbja gb vaqvivqhny crbcyr. Gur zntvpny tveyf ab ybatre unir gb or chg vagb fhpu n ubeevoyr ab-jva fvghngvba, ohg gurl fgvyy unir gb evfx gurve yvirf. Naq sbe gur abezny crbcyr, gurer’f ab creprcgvoyr punatr ng nyy.
Gur bayl ceboyrz V unq jvgu guvf vf Xlhorl’f pynvz gb gehr travr-yvxr cbjref. Ryvrmre jebgr n cbfg frireny lrnef ntb nobhg guvf: http://lesswrong.com/lw/ld/thehiddencomplexityofwishes/. Gehr travr cbjref znxr n fgbel vzcbffvoyr gb ernfba nobhg. Gur ceboyrz vf gung jvfuvat vf n irel vyy-qrsvarq vqrn. Jung vs bar jvfurq gb or vzzbegny? Gung jvfu vf irel pybfr gb Znzv’f, ohg fgevpgyl fhcrevbe. Ubj pbhyq gung jbex? Jbhyq gung fnir ure sebz gur sngr bs orpbzvat n jvgpu? Gur fgbel pna’g fheivir fbzrguvat yvxr gung. Vg’f whfg nf rnfl gb fvzcyl jvfu rirelbar vzzbegny vs gung jbexrq. Jbhyq Xlhorl tenag fbzrguvat yvxr n jvfu sbe vzzbegnyvgl va gur snfuvba bs Ryvrmre’f “hafnsr travr”, ol fhoiregvat gur vagrag oruvaq gur jvfu? Sebz jung jr frr va gur fubj, nyzbfg pregnvayl abg.
V guvax vg dhvgr oryvrinoyr gung Znzv jbhyqa’g guvax bs guvf nf fur ynl qlvat. Creuncf gur fubeg-fvtugrqarff bs Xlbxb’f naq Ubzhen’f jvfurf pna or fbzrjung cynhfvoyl whfgvsvrq ol gurve genhzn naq gurve lbhgu. Ohg jvgu gurvef, naq rfcrpvnyyl jvgu Fnlnxn’f, V srry yvxr lbh unir ab pubvpr ohg gb vaibxr n ybg bs “orpnhfr gur jevgref fnvq fb”. Fnlnxn naq Znqbxn fcrag dhvgr n ybg bs gvzr pbafvqrevat gur cebfcrpg bs orpbzvat znubh fubhwb naq guvaxvat nobhg jvfurf.
Gurer ner, bs pbhefr, yvzvgf orfvqrf gur tveyf’ vzntvangvbaf. Gur jvfu zhfg nyfb pbzr sebz gurve fgebatrfg srryvatf, juvpu va gurbel urycf rkcynva gur fznyy fpnyr bs gur jvfurf gurl pubfr (V’z ybbxvat ng lbh, Fnlnxn). Naq juvyr vg’f gehr gurfr punenpgref nera’g ZbE!Uneel, gurer’f fbzr cerggl rtertvbhf snvyher gb fuhg hc naq zhygvcyl. (Guvf vf unys bs gur ernfba V chg n fznyy qvfpynvzre abg gb tb vagb guvf fubj rkcrpgvat n fgebat qbfr bs engvbanyvgl)
Nyfb, jr yrnea sebz Xlhorl gung abg rirelbar’f jvfurf ner perngrq rdhny; gur “fvmr” bs gur jvfu qrcraqf ba lbhe cbjre nf n zntvpny tvey. (Qvq Xlhorl gryy Fnlnxn guvf rkcyvpvgyl va gur pbairefngvba jurer ur erirnyf gung Znqbxn unf terng cbgragvny cbjre? V frrz gb erzrzore uvz fnlvat gura gung gur jvfu fur pbhyq znxr jbhyq or uhtr). Vg’f pyrneyl abg nf fvzcyr nf whfg “jvfu sbe nalguvat”, gura. V guvax Xlhorl jbhyq unir gb whfg ershfr gb tenag fbzrguvat yvxr gur vzzbegnyvgl jvfu, be nalguvat ryfr gung jbhyq pyrneyl whfg oernx guvatf. Abg rabhtu cbjre.
Vg’f gur nobir genva bs gubhtug gung yrnqf zr gb pbapyhqr gung juvyr Xlhorl tyvoyl gryyf gur cbgragvny erpehvgf gung gurl pna jvfu sbe nalguvat ng nyy, ur’f bapr ntnva qrprvivat gurz. Vapvqragnyyl, n jvfu bs gur zntavghqr bs Znqbxn’f zhfg unir orra jryy orlbaq jung rira Xlhorl gubhtug jnf jvguva uvf cbjref. Vs gur Vaphongbef gubhtug gung erjevgvat gur ehyrf bs gur havirefr jrer cbffvoyr gura vg qbrfa’g znxr zhpu frafr gung gurl’q snvy gb gel gb qb guvf gurzfryirf. Rira zber rkcyvpvgyl, VVEP ur rkcerffrf dhvgr fbzr fhecevfr jura fur svanyyl znxrf ure pbagenpg.
V ubcr gur nobir nqrdhngryl rkcynvaf zl cevbe pbzzrag. Sebz urer ba ner zl gubhtugf ba gur raqvat, naq jul V ernyyl yvxrq vg rira gubhtu V guvax vg’f cerggl aba-engvbany (vgf aba-engvbanyvgl orvat gur bgure unys gur ernfba sbe zl qvfpynvzre).
Fb univat ernfbarq guhf sne, jr pbzr gb Znqbxn. Znqbxn, nybar nzbat nyy zntvpny tveyf, npghnyyl qbrf unir gur cbjre gb punatr guvatf ba n tenaq fpnyr. Fb ubj qbrf ure jvfu fgnpx hc? V unq gb cbaqre sbe n juvyr nsgre V svavfurq gur fubj va beqre gb qrpvqr ubj V sryg nobhg vg. Gehr, ure jvfu yvgrenyyl punatrq gur ehyrf bs gur havirefr. Ohg ba gur bgure unaq, pbafvqre gur ulcbgurgvpny jbeyq jurer Xlhorl vf abg n ylvat onfgneq^U^U^U^U^U^U pbzcrgrag tnzr gurbevfg naq gurer’f ab ubeevoyr sngr va fgber sbe gur tveyf. Bhe jbeyq, zber be yrff. Tvira n jvfu, gurer ner na njshy ybg bs bgure ubeevoyr guvatf gung pbhyq fgnaq gb punatr. Gur erfhyg bs Znqbxn’f jvfu bayl oevatf hf hc gb gur yriry bs gung jbeyq, pbzcyrgr jvgu nyy vgf qrngu naq zvfrel. Vf gurer ab jvfu gung pbhyq unir vzcebirq guvatf zber guna Znqbxn’f qvq? V frr ab ernfba gb oryvrir gung.
Ohg vf vg gbb unefu ba gur fubj gb gel gb ubyq vg gb fbzrguvat yvxr n genafuhznavfg fgnaqneq? Fher, V’q yvxr gb frr ure qb fbzrguvat ernyyl nzovgvbhf jvgu gur shgher bs uhznavgl, ohg V’z abg gur bar jevgvat vg. Whfg orpnhfr V’z crefbanyyl vagrerfgrq va genafuhznavfz rgp fubhyqa’g yrnq zr gb qvat gur fubj hasnveyl.
Lrg V srry yvxr gur fubj vgfrys qbrf yvir hc gb n uvture fgnaqneq sbe ernyvfz/engvbanyvgl guna gur infg znwbevgl bs navzr. Gur rcvfbqr jurer Xlhorl rkcynvaf gur uvfgbel bs gur Vaphongbef’ pbagnpg jvgu uhznavgl ernyyl fgehpx zr. Vagryyvtrag nyvraf gung ner abg bayl vagryyvtrag, ohg npghnyyl vauhzna? Abg gur fbeg bs guvat lbh rkcrpg bhg bs znubh fubhwb. Guvf fubj unf zber fpv-sv pubcf guna zbfg bs gur navzr gung npghnyyl trg pynffvsvrq nf fpv-sv. Nqq gb gung gur trahvar rssbeg gb unir gur punenpgref naq gurve npgvbaf znxr frafr naq srry ernyvfgvp, naq gur (V guvax) boivbhf snpg gung gur jevgref xarj ubj qvssvphyg jvfuvat jbhyq or gb jbex vagb gur fgbel va n jnl gung znxrf frafr. Guvf vf gur fghss gung grzcgrq zr gb cbfg n erpbzzraqngvba sbe guvf fubj ba YJ.
Gur irel raq fbeg bs gbbx zr ol fhecevfr, va pbagenfg gb nyy guvf. Qhevat gur frdhrapr va juvpu Znqbxn “nfpraqf”, V engure rkcrpgrq gur erfhyg gb ybbx zber… qvssrerag. Rira tenagvat gung ure jvfu jnf gur znkvzhz fur pbhyq unir qbar, V sbhaq vg fhecevfvat gung gur raq erfhyg jbhyq or gur fnzr jbeyq vafgrnq bs bar jvgu n irel qviretrag uvfgbel. Naq jurer qvq gurfr arj rarzvrf fhqqrayl fubj hc sebz, abj gung gurer ner ab jvgpurf?
Guvaxvat nobhg vg zber, V neevirq ng na vagrecergngvba gung ynvq gb erfg zl harnfr jvgu gur raqvat. Gur xrl gb vg jnf gur arj rarzvrf, jubfr pbairavrag nccrnenapr yrsg vagnpg rira gur arprffvgl sbe gur tveyf gb svtug. V guvax gung sebz gur ortvaavat gur jevgref jrer nvzvat sbe n fhogyr nffnhyg ba gur sbhegu jnyy.
Yes, thanks. I wanted to use strikethrough but a) I couldn’t figure out how to do it in LW’s markdown and b) it wouldn’t work anyway if you copy/paste to rot13.com like I do.
The cosmic horror in PMMM was abg gur Vaphongbef ohg gur snpg gung gur Znqbxn havirefr jnf aba-uhzna-bcgvzvfnoyr
Very good point; thank you for making me think about it.
I’m not sure why you’re positing erfgevpgvbaf ba Xlhorl’f cbjre. Ur qvq rirelguvat ur pynvzrq gb or noyr gb qb, naq vg znxrf frafr sbe uvz gb tenag nal jvfu gung tvirf na raretl cebsvg. Am I forgetting something?
Gur jbeyq whfg qbrfa’g ybbx yvxr nyy jvfurf pbzr gehr. Vs gung jrer gur pnfr, gura guebhtubhg uhzna uvfgbel jr’q unir frra tnzr-oernxvat zvenpyrf naq jvfurf bs rabezbhf fpbcr. Sbe vafgnapr V’q rkcrpg ng yrnfg bar qribhg crefba jbhyq unir jvfurq gung gurve snibhevgr eryvtvba pbadhre nyy bguref.
I nearly posted exactly this earlier today.
It’s an excellent show, though don’t expect too much rationality. Madoka is no HP:MoR, but since there is very little rationality-relevant content in anime it does stand out.
For me it was a case of two independent interests unexpectedly having some crossover. As a fan of SHAFT (the animation studio) and mahou shoujo in general, it was a given I was going to watch Madoka. Then fhcreuhzna vagryyvtraprf naq vasbezngvba-nflzzrgevp artbgvngvba?
In a classic mahou shoujo setup like this, with magical powers and wish-granting etc, an obvious-to-LWers objection will be “Why doesn’t someone just wish for no one to suffer/die ever again?”. Certainly MoR!Harry would have handled this world a lot differently. I was expecting to just have to live with this oversight in an otherwise impressively coherent setting. But I think by the end of the show even that can be justified if you really want to, based on Xlhorl’f ercrngrq qrprcgvbaf (naq gurersber gur pbzcyrgr ynpx bs perqvovyvgl bs uvf pynvzf bs hayvzvgrq cbjre gb tenag jvfurf), gur rkgerzryl lbhat cebgntbavfgf, naq gur nccnerag “ehyr” gung gur zntavghqr bs gur jvfu qrcraqf ba gur qrcgu bs srryvat naq qrfver sbe vg. Madoka is not MoR!Harry, after all.
Actually, I disagree; Madoka’s wish was pretty optimal.
The cosmic horror in PMMM was abg gur Vaphongbef ohg gur snpg gung gur Znqbxn havirefr jnf aba-uhzna-bcgvzvfnoyr—gurve ynjf bs gurezbqlanzvpf nyybjrq ragebcl erirefny, ohg rafherq gung ubcr naq qrfcnve onynaprq gb mreb. Sbe n uhzna inyhr flfgrz, ab birenyy vzcebirzrag pbhyq rire unccra.
Madoka explicitly oebxr guvf naq erjebgr gur havirefr gb fbzrguvat gung uhznaf naq Vaphongbef pbhyq obgu bcgvzvfr; vg’f abg pyrne gung fur pbhyq unir qbar nalguvat orggre. Vg’f dhvgr fvzvyne gb gur qvssrerapr orgjrra Abefr naq Puevfgvna zlgu gung Gbyxvra xrcg tbvat ba nobhg. Rcvfbqr 12 vf cher rhpngnfgebcur.
I’m not sure why you’re positing erfgevpgvbaf ba Xlhorl’f cbjre. Ur qvq rirelguvat ur pynvzrq gb or noyr gb qb, naq vg znxrf frafr sbe uvz gb tenag nal jvfu gung tvirf na raretl cebsvg. Am I forgetting something?
I mostly agree with you. In particular I really liked that Znqbxn’f jvfu jrag fb sne nf gb erjevgr gur havirefr. Gur fbhepr bs ure rzbgvbaf orvat sbe gur zntvpny tveyf naq gur pehrygl bs gur onetnva gurl znqr, V jnf npghnyyl n yvggyr jbeevrq va gur yrnq-hc gb gur svanyr gung ure jvfu jbhyqa’g or zbzragbhf rabhtu.
Ng gur fnzr gvzr, gubhtu gur jvfu raqrq hc ovt rabhtu gb or n fngvfslvat raq, V guvax vg’f cerggl rnfl gb jbaqre jul fur pbhyqa’g tb shegure. Gur arj havirefr vf arneyl vqragvpny gb gur byq bar, evtug qbja gb vaqvivqhny crbcyr. Gur zntvpny tveyf ab ybatre unir gb or chg vagb fhpu n ubeevoyr ab-jva fvghngvba, ohg gurl fgvyy unir gb evfx gurve yvirf. Naq sbe gur abezny crbcyr, gurer’f ab creprcgvoyr punatr ng nyy.
Gur bayl ceboyrz V unq jvgu guvf vf Xlhorl’f pynvz gb gehr travr-yvxr cbjref. Ryvrmre jebgr n cbfg frireny lrnef ntb nobhg guvf: http://lesswrong.com/lw/ld/thehiddencomplexityofwishes/. Gehr travr cbjref znxr n fgbel vzcbffvoyr gb ernfba nobhg. Gur ceboyrz vf gung jvfuvat vf n irel vyy-qrsvarq vqrn. Jung vs bar jvfurq gb or vzzbegny? Gung jvfu vf irel pybfr gb Znzv’f, ohg fgevpgyl fhcrevbe. Ubj pbhyq gung jbex? Jbhyq gung fnir ure sebz gur sngr bs orpbzvat n jvgpu? Gur fgbel pna’g fheivir fbzrguvat yvxr gung. Vg’f whfg nf rnfl gb fvzcyl jvfu rirelbar vzzbegny vs gung jbexrq. Jbhyq Xlhorl tenag fbzrguvat yvxr n jvfu sbe vzzbegnyvgl va gur snfuvba bs Ryvrmre’f “hafnsr travr”, ol fhoiregvat gur vagrag oruvaq gur jvfu? Sebz jung jr frr va gur fubj, nyzbfg pregnvayl abg.
V guvax vg dhvgr oryvrinoyr gung Znzv jbhyqa’g guvax bs guvf nf fur ynl qlvat. Creuncf gur fubeg-fvtugrqarff bs Xlbxb’f naq Ubzhen’f jvfurf pna or fbzrjung cynhfvoyl whfgvsvrq ol gurve genhzn naq gurve lbhgu. Ohg jvgu gurvef, naq rfcrpvnyyl jvgu Fnlnxn’f, V srry yvxr lbh unir ab pubvpr ohg gb vaibxr n ybg bs “orpnhfr gur jevgref fnvq fb”. Fnlnxn naq Znqbxn fcrag dhvgr n ybg bs gvzr pbafvqrevat gur cebfcrpg bs orpbzvat znubh fubhwb naq guvaxvat nobhg jvfurf.
Gurer ner, bs pbhefr, yvzvgf orfvqrf gur tveyf’ vzntvangvbaf. Gur jvfu zhfg nyfb pbzr sebz gurve fgebatrfg srryvatf, juvpu va gurbel urycf rkcynva gur fznyy fpnyr bs gur jvfurf gurl pubfr (V’z ybbxvat ng lbh, Fnlnxn). Naq juvyr vg’f gehr gurfr punenpgref nera’g ZbE!Uneel, gurer’f fbzr cerggl rtertvbhf snvyher gb fuhg hc naq zhygvcyl. (Guvf vf unys bs gur ernfba V chg n fznyy qvfpynvzre abg gb tb vagb guvf fubj rkcrpgvat n fgebat qbfr bs engvbanyvgl)
Nyfb, jr yrnea sebz Xlhorl gung abg rirelbar’f jvfurf ner perngrq rdhny; gur “fvmr” bs gur jvfu qrcraqf ba lbhe cbjre nf n zntvpny tvey. (Qvq Xlhorl gryy Fnlnxn guvf rkcyvpvgyl va gur pbairefngvba jurer ur erirnyf gung Znqbxn unf terng cbgragvny cbjre? V frrz gb erzrzore uvz fnlvat gura gung gur jvfu fur pbhyq znxr jbhyq or uhtr). Vg’f pyrneyl abg nf fvzcyr nf whfg “jvfu sbe nalguvat”, gura. V guvax Xlhorl jbhyq unir gb whfg ershfr gb tenag fbzrguvat yvxr gur vzzbegnyvgl jvfu, be nalguvat ryfr gung jbhyq pyrneyl whfg oernx guvatf. Abg rabhtu cbjre.
Vg’f gur nobir genva bs gubhtug gung yrnqf zr gb pbapyhqr gung juvyr Xlhorl tyvoyl gryyf gur cbgragvny erpehvgf gung gurl pna jvfu sbe nalguvat ng nyy, ur’f bapr ntnva qrprvivat gurz. Vapvqragnyyl, n jvfu bs gur zntavghqr bs Znqbxn’f zhfg unir orra jryy orlbaq jung rira Xlhorl gubhtug jnf jvguva uvf cbjref. Vs gur Vaphongbef gubhtug gung erjevgvat gur ehyrf bs gur havirefr jrer cbffvoyr gura vg qbrfa’g znxr zhpu frafr gung gurl’q snvy gb gel gb qb guvf gurzfryirf. Rira zber rkcyvpvgyl, VVEP ur rkcerffrf dhvgr fbzr fhecevfr jura fur svanyyl znxrf ure pbagenpg.
V ubcr gur nobir nqrdhngryl rkcynvaf zl cevbe pbzzrag. Sebz urer ba ner zl gubhtugf ba gur raqvat, naq jul V ernyyl yvxrq vg rira gubhtu V guvax vg’f cerggl aba-engvbany (vgf aba-engvbanyvgl orvat gur bgure unys gur ernfba sbe zl qvfpynvzre).
Fb univat ernfbarq guhf sne, jr pbzr gb Znqbxn. Znqbxn, nybar nzbat nyy zntvpny tveyf, npghnyyl qbrf unir gur cbjre gb punatr guvatf ba n tenaq fpnyr. Fb ubj qbrf ure jvfu fgnpx hc? V unq gb cbaqre sbe n juvyr nsgre V svavfurq gur fubj va beqre gb qrpvqr ubj V sryg nobhg vg. Gehr, ure jvfu yvgrenyyl punatrq gur ehyrf bs gur havirefr. Ohg ba gur bgure unaq, pbafvqre gur ulcbgurgvpny jbeyq jurer Xlhorl vf abg n ylvat onfgneq^U^U^U^U^U^U pbzcrgrag tnzr gurbevfg naq gurer’f ab ubeevoyr sngr va fgber sbe gur tveyf. Bhe jbeyq, zber be yrff. Tvira n jvfu, gurer ner na njshy ybg bs bgure ubeevoyr guvatf gung pbhyq fgnaq gb punatr. Gur erfhyg bs Znqbxn’f jvfu bayl oevatf hf hc gb gur yriry bs gung jbeyq, pbzcyrgr jvgu nyy vgf qrngu naq zvfrel. Vf gurer ab jvfu gung pbhyq unir vzcebirq guvatf zber guna Znqbxn’f qvq? V frr ab ernfba gb oryvrir gung.
Ohg vf vg gbb unefu ba gur fubj gb gel gb ubyq vg gb fbzrguvat yvxr n genafuhznavfg fgnaqneq? Fher, V’q yvxr gb frr ure qb fbzrguvat ernyyl nzovgvbhf jvgu gur shgher bs uhznavgl, ohg V’z abg gur bar jevgvat vg. Whfg orpnhfr V’z crefbanyyl vagrerfgrq va genafuhznavfz rgp fubhyqa’g yrnq zr gb qvat gur fubj hasnveyl.
Lrg V srry yvxr gur fubj vgfrys qbrf yvir hc gb n uvture fgnaqneq sbe ernyvfz/engvbanyvgl guna gur infg znwbevgl bs navzr. Gur rcvfbqr jurer Xlhorl rkcynvaf gur uvfgbel bs gur Vaphongbef’ pbagnpg jvgu uhznavgl ernyyl fgehpx zr. Vagryyvtrag nyvraf gung ner abg bayl vagryyvtrag, ohg npghnyyl vauhzna? Abg gur fbeg bs guvat lbh rkcrpg bhg bs znubh fubhwb. Guvf fubj unf zber fpv-sv pubcf guna zbfg bs gur navzr gung npghnyyl trg pynffvsvrq nf fpv-sv. Nqq gb gung gur trahvar rssbeg gb unir gur punenpgref naq gurve npgvbaf znxr frafr naq srry ernyvfgvp, naq gur (V guvax) boivbhf snpg gung gur jevgref xarj ubj qvssvphyg jvfuvat jbhyq or gb jbex vagb gur fgbel va n jnl gung znxrf frafr. Guvf vf gur fghss gung grzcgrq zr gb cbfg n erpbzzraqngvba sbe guvf fubj ba YJ.
Gur irel raq fbeg bs gbbx zr ol fhecevfr, va pbagenfg gb nyy guvf. Qhevat gur frdhrapr va juvpu Znqbxn “nfpraqf”, V engure rkcrpgrq gur erfhyg gb ybbx zber… qvssrerag. Rira tenagvat gung ure jvfu jnf gur znkvzhz fur pbhyq unir qbar, V sbhaq vg fhecevfvat gung gur raq erfhyg jbhyq or gur fnzr jbeyq vafgrnq bs bar jvgu n irel qviretrag uvfgbel. Naq jurer qvq gurfr arj rarzvrf fhqqrayl fubj hc sebz, abj gung gurer ner ab jvgpurf?
Guvaxvat nobhg vg zber, V neevirq ng na vagrecergngvba gung ynvq gb erfg zl harnfr jvgu gur raqvat. Gur xrl gb vg jnf gur arj rarzvrf, jubfr pbairavrag nccrnenapr yrsg vagnpg rira gur arprffvgl sbe gur tveyf gb svtug. V guvax gung sebz gur ortvaavat gur jevgref jrer nvzvat sbe n fhogyr nffnhyg ba gur sbhegu jnyy.
Znqbxn’f jvfu jnf gb ghea ure fubj vagb n abezny znubh fubhwb.
Good post.
Vs gur fgeratgu bs jvfurf vf eryngrq gb fgebat srryvatf, gura vg’f dhvgr cynhfvoyr gb zr gung Znqbxn’f jvfu ernyyl jnf gur orfg fur pbhyq qb rira nffhzvat nobir abezny engvbanyvgl. Orpnhfr gung znxrf vg n ceboyrz gung erdhverf zber guna /n zrer pbeerpg qrpvfvba/; lbhe vagreany fgngr znggref gbb. Naq Znqbxn vf uhzna, fb svkvat gur jbeyq va bgure jnlf jbhyq erdhver ure gb qrsrng fpbcr vafrafvivgl. V unir ab ernfba gb qbhog fur xarj, yvxr jr nyy qb, gung gurer ner na njshy ybg bs bgure ubeevoyr guvatf gung pbhyq fgnaq gb punatr, naq orvat n xvaq tvey fur pnerq nobhg gung, ohg gurer’f bayl fb zhpu lbh pna jbex lbhefrys hc nobhg nyy gung ab znggre ubj zhpu lbh gel gb fuhg hc naq zhygvcyl.
Ohg jura vg pbzrf gb jvgpurf, Xlhorl ernyyl fubg uvzfrys va gur sbbg, orpnhfr ur /fubjrq ure/ nyy gubfr zntvpny tveyf sebz nyy npebff uvfgbel. Fur qvqa’g unir gb fuhg hc naq zhygvcyl—fur jnf cenpgvpnyyl zvaqencrq jvgu gur xabjyrqtr. Ba gbc bs gung, zntvpny tvey ceboyrzf jnf jung fur unq orra yvivat gur cnfg srj jrrxf, naq bar rknzcyr jnf evtug va sebag bs ure snpr (n arneyl oebxra Ubzhen). Ohg zbfgyl V guvax vg jnf Xlhorl’f yvggyr uvfgbel yrffba. Fb fur unq ab ceboyrz srryvat gehyl cnffvbangryl nobhg gung ceboyrz, naq pbhyq hfr ure jvfu gb nqqerff vg.
V svaq gung n zber fngvfsnpgbel jnl gb guvax nobhg vg guna nalguvat vaibyivat gur sbhegu jnyy. :)
Gung vf abg n fhogyr nffnhyg ba gur sbhegu jnyy.
I dunno, I think it is. It took me several hours of reflection to realize that it could be framed in those terms. The show didn’t do any breaking.
.… Sometimes, a blog post works better.
What is meant by “ylvat onfgneq^U^U^U^U^U^U”? Specifically the bit with the ^Us.
Backspace
Yes, thanks. I wanted to use strikethrough but a) I couldn’t figure out how to do it in LW’s markdown and b) it wouldn’t work anyway if you copy/paste to rot13.com like I do.
Yeah, I wish we had strikethrough. Then I could get downvoted for abusing it for sarcasm purposes. sighs wistfully
Very good point; thank you for making me think about it.
Gur jbeyq whfg qbrfa’g ybbx yvxr nyy jvfurf pbzr gehr. Vs gung jrer gur pnfr, gura guebhtubhg uhzna uvfgbel jr’q unir frra tnzr-oernxvat zvenpyrf naq jvfurf bs rabezbhf fpbcr. Sbe vafgnapr V’q rkcrpg ng yrnfg bar qribhg crefba jbhyq unir jvfurq gung gurve snibhevgr eryvtvba pbadhre nyy bguref.
Vg frrzf gung qrfcvgr nyy gur zntvpny tveyf va uvfgbel, abguvat yvxr gung rire unccrarq. Vafgrnq, fbzrbar zvenphybhfyl erpbiref sebz pnapre; fbzrbar ryfr jvaf gur ybggrel; fbzrbar fhqqrayl nggenpgf gur nggragvba bs gurve pehfu; fbzrbar ryfr trgf snzbhf bhg bs gur oyhr. Yvggyr guvatf yvxr gung. Vg’f whfg vapbaprvinoyr gb zr gung, vs jvfurf ernyyl jrer bzavcbgrag, naq gurer unq orra zntvpny tveyf sbe uhaqerqf be gubhfnaqf bs lrnef, gung’f nyy jr’q frr.
V orpnzr nphgryl njner bs guvf gur zbzrag V pbafvqrerq jevgvat snasvpf sbe CZ. Vg’f ernyyl, ernyyl uneq abg gb unir gur snpg gung /lbhat tveyf pna jvfu sbe guvatf/ abg oybj hc abg whfg zl cybgf, ohg nal ernfbanoyr cebterffvba bs uvfgbel, cnfg be shgher, jvgubhg cbfvgvat fgebat yvzvgngvbaf.
(BTW, may I suggest that you do not mix rot13 and normal in the same sentence? I hope I’m not being unusually inept, but it makes it a bit of a pain.)
Frr zl cbfg nobir, ohg va trareny, gur Vaphongbef cebonoyl qba’g bssre jvfurf gb pyrire tveyf sbe cerpvfryl gung ernfba.
Zl pynvz vf jr qba’g frr /ovt/ jvfurf, abg whfg /pyrire/ jvfurf. Lbh qba’g unir gb or n zhapuxva gb jvfu sbe, fnl, jbeyq crnpr, be gb raq jbeyq uhatre, be gb orpbzr bzavcbgrag. Fbzr ovt jvfurf ner boivbhf.
Jura V guvax nobhg ubj znal zntvpny tveyf gurer zhfg unir orra va uvfgbel (rirel gbja bs n pregnva fvmr cebonoyl trgf bar, naq gur gheabire vf uvtu fvapr gurl qvr/jvgpuvsl n ybg, naq guvf unf orra tbvat ba sbe gubhfnaqf bs lrnef), vg’f whfg vapbaprvinoyr gung abobql unf rire nfxrq sbe fbzrguvat yvxr jbeyq crnpr. Ubj cresrpg jbhyq Xlhorl’f fryrpgvba zrgubqf unir gb or?
Orfvqrf, Xlhorl frrzf engure pneryrff gb zr, yvxr ur’yy tenag nal jvfu. Gvzr-erfrggvat, ernyyl? Ubzhen unq fgngrq jung fur jnagrq orsber ur bssrerq ure n jvfu gb npuvrir vg, fb vg’f abg yvxr vg fhecevfrq uvz.
Hm. I’ll grant you that one.
Abg gb or gbb ybtvpnyyl ehqr, gubhtu, ohg gubfr xvaqf bs ovt-ohg-abg-bcgvzvmrq jvfurf unir gur ovttre ceboyrz bs “cbgragvny”: abg nyy zntvpny tveyf unir gur fnzr jvfu-tenagvat cbjre. Vg’f orra njuvyr fvapr V jngpurq gur fubj, fb V’z abg fher vs Xlhorl rire pynvzf gung gur jvfurf ner bzavcbgrag gb fbzrbar bgure guna Znqbxn, ohg V’yy org ur qbrfa’g (c=0.65).
Npghnyyl, V’yy erivfr gung gb 1.0 - Xlhorl gryyf fbzrbar (Fnlnxn?) syng bhg gung jvfurf pna’g abeznyyl oevat onpx gur qrnq. Znqbxn, bs pbhefr, qbrf vg pnfhnyyl—fb gurer lbh tb.
Gur jvfurf Xlhorl arrqf gb jbeel nobhg ner cevznevyl guvatf yvxr “V jvfu sbe anabgrpu:” fznyy fubeg-grez rssrpg (lbh abj unir n guvzoyrshy bs fzneg znggre), ynetr ybat-grez rssrpg (uhznavgl vf abj terl tbb.)
Nf sne nf Ubzhen tbrf… jryy, ernyyl, cvpx n enaqbz sbhegrra-lrne-byq tvey jub whfg ybfg ure orfg sevraq. Tvir ure n punapr gb fnir ure, rkprcg gung fur qbrfa’g ernyyl orpnhfr Jnychetvfanpug vf whfg gbb fgebat. V’q tvir lbh n gra gb bar gung nal tvira tvey vf pncnoyr bs ynfgvat cnfg rnpu ybbc jvgubhg whfg tvivat va gb qrfcnve (guvf pbairetrf ng fbzr cbvag, orpnhfr nsgre lbh svavfu gra gur ryriragu vf cebonoyl rnfvre, ohg ng gung cbvag lbh’er nyernql cnfg gur pheerag cbchyngvba bs Rnegu.) Vs Ubzhen unq orra nal yrff urebvp (be yhpxl), fur’q’ir Jvgpurq bhg va gur guveq gvzryvar.
Jryy, lrf. Gung vf n tbbq rkcynangvba bs jul Xlhorl pna bayl tenag fznyy jvfurf (hayrff lbh’er Znqbxn), bar gung V nyfb unccra gb oryvrir. V qba’g dhvgr frr lbhe cbvag. (V’z haqre gur vzcerffvba lbh’er qvfnterrvat jvgu zr va fbzr jnl.)
V qba’g guvax guvf unccraf. Fbhepr? (V pna bayl guvax bs n fvzvyne pbairefngvba ur unf jvgu Znqbxn, nobhg oevatvat onpx Fnlnxn, ohg vg qbrfa’g dhvgr fnl jung lbh whfg fnvq.)
Hayrff—vg’f na vagrerfgvat gurbel V’ir rapbhagrerq—ure bja jvfu jnf cebgrpgvat ure (cnl nggragvba gb gur jbeqvat). Ohg gung’f whfg na vagrecergngvba, naq lbh znxr n tbbq cbvag.
Gb zr, n gvzr-erfrggvat cbjre frrzrq xvaq bs n erpxyrff guvat gb nyybj, vs bayl orpnhfr lbhe ynfg zbagu bs zrzbevrf vf nobhg gb trg jvcrq. Ohg V fhccbfr Xlhorl unq tbbq ernfba gb or pbasvqrag va obgu gur ebohfgarff bs gur flfgrz, naq va uvf bja vagryyvtrapr—ur qbrf raq hc orngvat Ubzhen gvzr naq gvzr ntnva qrfcvgr ure orvat va cbfvgvba gb tebhaqubt-qnl uvz. Gubhtu V fhccbfr fur’f orngra ol ure bja rzbgvbany ceboyrzf, naq ubj gurl pnhfr ure gb or hanoyr gb trg crbcyr gb gehfg ure, nf zhpu nf ol uvz...
(Edited twice.)
Ah, I see.
Vs V erpnyy pbeerpgyl, Znqbxn jnf bayl noyr gb znxr gur zrgn-jvfu orpnhfr ure crefbany zntvpny cbgragvny unq orra znffviryl nzcyvsvrq ol Ubzhen’f ercrngrq Crttl Fhr plpyrf. V qba’g erzrzore vs guvf n pnhfngvir, fgnpxvat rssrpg, be vs Ubzhen vf whfg npgvat nf na Bhgpbzr Chzc naq qrfgeblvat nyy havirefrf jurer Znqbxn vfa’g cbjreshy rabhtu gb fnir gur qnl ol cher punapr :) Vs gur bevtvany Znqbxn unq fbzrubj znqr gung jvfu, V nffhzr Xlhorl jbhyq unir fnvq “Abcr; vafhssvpvrag whvpr.” naq erzvaqrq uvzfrys gb fgvpx gb abezny puvyqera jub qba’g guvax gung ovt.
But it’s a good point and I suspect I’m just making fanwank excuses for something I like.