One thing I like about the PUFA breakdown theory is that it agrees with aspects of so many different diets.
Keto avoids fried food because usually the food being fried is carbs
Carnivore avoids vegetable oils because they’re not meat
Paleo avoids vegetable oils because they weren’t available in the ancestral environment
Vegans tend to emphasize raw food and fried foods often have meat or cheese in them
Low-fat diets avoid fat of all kinds
Ray Peat was perhaps the closest to the mark in emphasizing that saturated fats are more stable (he probably talked about PUFA breakdown specifically, I’m not sure).
Edit: I originally wrote “neatly explains why so many different diets are reported to work”
I’ve also realized that it might explain the anomalous (i.e. after adjusting for confounders) effects of living at higher altitude. The lower the atmospheric pressure, the less oxygen available to oxidize the PUFAs. Of course some foods will be imported already full of oxidized FAs and that will be too late, but presumably a McDonalds deep fryer in Colorado Springs is producing less PUFAs/hour than a correspondingly-hot one in San Francisco.
This feels too crazy to put in the original post but it’s certainly interesting.
Measuring the composition of fryer oil at different times certainly seems like a good way to test both the original hypothesis and the effect of altitude.
Don’t forget the standard diet advice of avoiding “processed foods”. It’s unclear what exactly the boundary is, but I think “oil that has been cooking for weeks” probably counts.
I am confused by this sort of reasoning. As far as I’m aware, mainstream nutritional science/understanding already points towards avoiding refined oils (and refined sugars).
There’s already explainations for why cutting out refined oil is be beneficial.
There are already reasonable explainations for why all of those diets might be reported to work, at least in the short term.
I knew that those wise and good benefactors of humanity would turn out to have been warning us of the dangers of polyunsaturated fats all along.
They might want to mention it to people like my father, who, on the advice of his doctor, has been pretty much only eating polyunsaturated fats these last twenty years, for the good of his heart.
Or perhaps to McDonalds, who on the basis of a consumer-led campaign changed their famously good beef-dripping fried chips to vegetable-oil fried chips, coincidentally at about the time obesity and various other nasty diseases with no known cause really became fashionable in America.
I’m saying the idea that it’s healthiest to avoid virtually any refined oil is mainstream nutritional understanding. Do you dispute this? I’m not making a point about which refined oils/fats are better than others. I haven’t seen anything that has convinced me mainstream nutrition is wrong about that, but I don’t think its particularly important when they can all be avoided.
Typical doctors are not particularly reliable nutritional authorities. They have almost no nutrition training.
MacDonalds fries are clearly very unhealthy regardless of what they’re fried in. Do you have evidence that they’re healthier when fried in beef tallow?
Regardless, the point I was making was that the diets the original commenter mentioned all restrict things that mainstream nutrition already suggests cause health problems.
Refined sugar, refined grains, refined fats, and animal products are all things mainstream nutrition suggests cause health problems. All of the diets listed restrict at least one of those things, so it’s not surprising that people would report temporary improvements in health relative to a diet that doesn’t restrict any of them.
One thing I like about the PUFA breakdown theory is that it agrees with aspects of so many different diets.
Keto avoids fried food because usually the food being fried is carbs
Carnivore avoids vegetable oils because they’re not meat
Paleo avoids vegetable oils because they weren’t available in the ancestral environment
Vegans tend to emphasize raw food and fried foods often have meat or cheese in them
Low-fat diets avoid fat of all kinds
Ray Peat was perhaps the closest to the mark in emphasizing that saturated fats are more stable (he probably talked about PUFA breakdown specifically, I’m not sure).
Edit: I originally wrote “neatly explains why so many different diets are reported to work”
I’ve also realized that it might explain the anomalous (i.e. after adjusting for confounders) effects of living at higher altitude. The lower the atmospheric pressure, the less oxygen available to oxidize the PUFAs. Of course some foods will be imported already full of oxidized FAs and that will be too late, but presumably a McDonalds deep fryer in Colorado Springs is producing less PUFAs/hour than a correspondingly-hot one in San Francisco.
This feels too crazy to put in the original post but it’s certainly interesting.
Measuring the composition of fryer oil at different times certainly seems like a good way to test both the original hypothesis and the effect of altitude.
Don’t forget the standard diet advice of avoiding “processed foods”. It’s unclear what exactly the boundary is, but I think “oil that has been cooking for weeks” probably counts.
Really? I would only consider foods that were deliberately modified using procedures developed within the last century to be “processed”.
I think historically frying would have used olive oil or lard though.
I am confused by this sort of reasoning. As far as I’m aware, mainstream nutritional science/understanding already points towards avoiding refined oils (and refined sugars).
There’s already explainations for why cutting out refined oil is be beneficial.
There are already reasonable explainations for why all of those diets might be reported to work, at least in the short term.
I knew that those wise and good benefactors of humanity would turn out to have been warning us of the dangers of polyunsaturated fats all along.
They might want to mention it to people like my father, who, on the advice of his doctor, has been pretty much only eating polyunsaturated fats these last twenty years, for the good of his heart.
Or perhaps to McDonalds, who on the basis of a consumer-led campaign changed their famously good beef-dripping fried chips to vegetable-oil fried chips, coincidentally at about the time obesity and various other nasty diseases with no known cause really became fashionable in America.
I’m unsure exactly what points you’re making.
I’m saying the idea that it’s healthiest to avoid virtually any refined oil is mainstream nutritional understanding. Do you dispute this? I’m not making a point about which refined oils/fats are better than others. I haven’t seen anything that has convinced me mainstream nutrition is wrong about that, but I don’t think its particularly important when they can all be avoided.
Typical doctors are not particularly reliable nutritional authorities. They have almost no nutrition training.
MacDonalds fries are clearly very unhealthy regardless of what they’re fried in. Do you have evidence that they’re healthier when fried in beef tallow?
Regardless, the point I was making was that the diets the original commenter mentioned all restrict things that mainstream nutrition already suggests cause health problems.
Refined sugar, refined grains, refined fats, and animal products are all things mainstream nutrition suggests cause health problems. All of the diets listed restrict at least one of those things, so it’s not surprising that people would report temporary improvements in health relative to a diet that doesn’t restrict any of them.
You’re right, my original wording was too strong. I edited it to say that it agrees with so many diets instead of explains why they work.