I count myself among the philosophers who would say that “knowing the Baby-eaters want to eat babies” is not a reason (for me) to eat babies. Some philosophers don’t even think that the Baby-eaters’ desires to eat babies are reasons for them to eat babies, not even defeasible reasons.
Knowing the Baby-eaters want to eat babies is a reason for them to eat babies. It is not a reason for us to let them eat babies. My biggest problem with desirism in general is that it provides no reason for us to want to fulfill others’ desires. Saying that they want to fulfill their desires is obvious. Whether we help or hinder them is based entirely on our own reasons for action.
Desirism claims that moral value exists as a relation between desires and states of affairs.
Desirism claims that desires themselves are the primary objects of moral evaluation.
Thus, morality is the practice of shaping malleable desires: promoting desires that tend to fulfill other desires, and discouraging desires that tend to thwart other desires.
The moral thing to do is to shape my desires to fulfill others’ desires, insofar as they are malleable. This is what I meant by “we should want to fulfill others’ desires,” though I acknowledge that a significant amount of precision and clarity was lost in the original statement. Is this all correct?
The desirism FAQ needs updating, and is not a very clear presentation of the theory, I think.
One problem is that much of the theory is really just a linguistic proposal. That’s true for all moral theories, but it can be difficult to separate the linguistic from the factual claims. I think Alonzo Fyfe and I are doing a better job of that in our podcast. The latest episode is The Claims of Desirism, Part 1.
Unfortunately, we’re not making moral claims yet. In meta-ethics, there is just too much groundwork to lay down first. Kinda like how Eliezer took like like 200 posts to build up to talking about meta-ethics.
Knowing the Baby-eaters want to eat babies is a reason for them to eat babies. It is not a reason for us to let them eat babies. My biggest problem with desirism in general is that it provides no reason for us to want to fulfill others’ desires. Saying that they want to fulfill their desires is obvious. Whether we help or hinder them is based entirely on our own reasons for action.
That’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
Are you familiar with desirism? It says that we should want to fulfill others’ desires, but, AFAI can tell, gives no reason why.
No. This is not what desirism says.
From your desirism FAQ:
The moral thing to do is to shape my desires to fulfill others’ desires, insofar as they are malleable. This is what I meant by “we should want to fulfill others’ desires,” though I acknowledge that a significant amount of precision and clarity was lost in the original statement. Is this all correct?
The desirism FAQ needs updating, and is not a very clear presentation of the theory, I think.
One problem is that much of the theory is really just a linguistic proposal. That’s true for all moral theories, but it can be difficult to separate the linguistic from the factual claims. I think Alonzo Fyfe and I are doing a better job of that in our podcast. The latest episode is The Claims of Desirism, Part 1.
I will listen to that.
Unfortunately, we’re not making moral claims yet. In meta-ethics, there is just too much groundwork to lay down first. Kinda like how Eliezer took like like 200 posts to build up to talking about meta-ethics.
So, just to make sure, what I said in the grandparent is not what desirism says?
Ah, oops. I wasn’t familiar with it, and I misunderstood the sentence.